WiKirby:Proposals: Difference between revisions
Pinkyoshifan (talk | contribs) |
Pinkyoshifan (talk | contribs) |
||
(7 intermediate revisions by 7 users not shown) | |||
Line 78: | Line 78: | ||
#First and only choice. My reasoning for this is because usually images with the "simple" edits are mostly created to fit a specific need for a specific website and nothing else; in fact, you will usually not find them outside of where they were originally posted as they are not edits to the artwork itself like the non-simple ones. For example, [[:File:KatFL Sword Kirby artwork.png|the artwork of Sword for ''Forgotten Land'']] is not originally rotated and with a shadow like it is in the Japanese website, as evidenced by it [https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81xWctnCuAL._SL1500_.jpg in the Japanese FL guide]. There is countless rotated artwork in websites for instance that if we don't draw a line, could be uploaded to WiKirby and feel redundant. Some examples found [https://www.kirby.jp/character/kirby/ here]: rotated Cupid artwork, rotated Mini, flipped Burning, rotated and with simple outline Bubble and Hi-Jump, flipped Freeze, etc. I don't feel any of these are different enough for us to go uploaded them on WiKirby. However, the non-simple edits I feel are justifiable since they are usually done to match a new artstyle, or to upload the design of what is being rendered, so I feel we should still allow them on WiKirby, as they are essentially different images. {{User:Gigi/sig}} 15:39, 1 July 2024 (UTC) | #First and only choice. My reasoning for this is because usually images with the "simple" edits are mostly created to fit a specific need for a specific website and nothing else; in fact, you will usually not find them outside of where they were originally posted as they are not edits to the artwork itself like the non-simple ones. For example, [[:File:KatFL Sword Kirby artwork.png|the artwork of Sword for ''Forgotten Land'']] is not originally rotated and with a shadow like it is in the Japanese website, as evidenced by it [https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81xWctnCuAL._SL1500_.jpg in the Japanese FL guide]. There is countless rotated artwork in websites for instance that if we don't draw a line, could be uploaded to WiKirby and feel redundant. Some examples found [https://www.kirby.jp/character/kirby/ here]: rotated Cupid artwork, rotated Mini, flipped Burning, rotated and with simple outline Bubble and Hi-Jump, flipped Freeze, etc. I don't feel any of these are different enough for us to go uploaded them on WiKirby. However, the non-simple edits I feel are justifiable since they are usually done to match a new artstyle, or to upload the design of what is being rendered, so I feel we should still allow them on WiKirby, as they are essentially different images. {{User:Gigi/sig}} 15:39, 1 July 2024 (UTC) | ||
#First choice. Minor edits for presentation purposes isn't worth cluttering galleries with, our primary purpose isn't an archive. {{User:Pinkyoshifan/sig}} 15:56, 1 July 2024 (UTC) | #First choice. Minor edits for presentation purposes isn't worth cluttering galleries with, our primary purpose isn't an archive. {{User:Pinkyoshifan/sig}} 15:56, 1 July 2024 (UTC) | ||
#One of WiKirby's writing guidelines is to avoid bloat and covering every single detail regarding the article's subject. I believe the same philosophy can be applied to images. WiKirby isn't archive and shouldn't cover everything ''everything''. While curating if an edit is minor or not can be considered arbitrary, I don't see it as any different from how we decide on e.g. how in-depth the descriptions of stage pages can be. {{User:Superbound/sig}} 14:17, 4 July 2024 (UTC) | |||
{{Option|3|Allow any images edits}} | {{Option|3|Allow any images edits}} | ||
Line 83: | Line 84: | ||
#They're all still official images that I think we should include for the sake of both thoroughness and showing in the most accurate way possible how a subject was depicted in a particular instance. And even if some simple rotations made purely for use on websites and such could be argued as overkill, I don't see the need to establish hard rules preventing them rather than just handling this case-by-case, in case such an image edit with a more substantial usage and need to be uploaded crops up. [[User:Hewer|Hewer]] ([[User talk:Hewer|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Hewer|contributions]]) 15:52, 1 July 2024 (UTC) | #They're all still official images that I think we should include for the sake of both thoroughness and showing in the most accurate way possible how a subject was depicted in a particular instance. And even if some simple rotations made purely for use on websites and such could be argued as overkill, I don't see the need to establish hard rules preventing them rather than just handling this case-by-case, in case such an image edit with a more substantial usage and need to be uploaded crops up. [[User:Hewer|Hewer]] ([[User talk:Hewer|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Hewer|contributions]]) 15:52, 1 July 2024 (UTC) | ||
#Second choice. While I feel like some of the complex edits are things that aren't necessary to have around (e.g. RtDLD's multicolor outlines), there's other complex edits (e.g. small coloration differences) that I feel like are relevant and worth keeping. {{User:Pinkyoshifan/sig}} 15:56, 1 July 2024 (UTC) | #Second choice. While I feel like some of the complex edits are things that aren't necessary to have around (e.g. RtDLD's multicolor outlines), there's other complex edits (e.g. small coloration differences) that I feel like are relevant and worth keeping. {{User:Pinkyoshifan/sig}} 15:56, 1 July 2024 (UTC) | ||
#I agree with Hewer in that I think we should handle things in a more case-by-case situation. For example, I don't think we should delete any KTD versions of KRtDL renders due to the subtle changes that happened between games. I also think that having full sets of renders is pretty important or at least useful. We shouldn't use old renders to fill in the gaps and say "lol close enough" when we could have the actual correct artwork. ~ [[User:Waddlez3121|Waddlez]]3121 ([[User:Waddlez3121/WaddleNav|click to navigate]]) 18:53, 1 July 2024 (UTC) | |||
#First and only choice. This leaves these matters completely closed to subjective interpretation and documents all official artwork and edits. However slight the difference may be, both the original and the edit are official art and I think they ought to be treated as such. {{User:YoshiFlutterJump/sig}} 23:13, 1 July 2024 (UTC) | |||
#First and only choice. I agree with YFJ on that a lot of this is subjective interpretation and I believe that official art should be allowed even if they are just edits. They're still official at the end of the day [[User:NVS Pixel|NVS Pixel]] ([[User talk:NVS Pixel|talk]]) 16:37, 2 July 2024 (UTC) | |||
{{Neutral}} | {{Neutral}} | ||
===Discussion=== | ===Discussion=== | ||
For people voting to allow any and all edits, do you all argue then that all images featured [https://www.kirby.jp/character/kirby/ here] need to be uploaded too? I am just curious if you have all understood what not drawing a line means in the end. {{User:Gigi/sig}} 23:50, 2 July 2024 (UTC) | |||
:I addressed that when I said it could be handled case-by-case as the images are needed rather than making hard rules to forbid certain official images. But honestly, I'm not personally seeing a big issue with uploading all of those. [[User:Hewer|Hewer]] ([[User talk:Hewer|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Hewer|contributions]]) 01:54, 3 July 2024 (UTC) | |||
{{clear}} | {{clear}} | ||
Latest revision as of 01:41, 6 July 2024
Your opinions matter! |
---|
Welcome to the Proposals page. Here, WiKirby's editors may propose changes to the way the wiki operates, including how to handle certain categories of content, quality standards, or even just making aesthetic suggestions. Any user who has Autopatrol status or above may make a proposal or vote on one, and after two weeks of voting, if it passes, it will be incorporated into policy. Please see below for the specifics on how to make and/or vote on a proposal. |
How to make a proposal |
Please use one of the following templates to make a new proposal: Single vote: This is for proposals which only propose a single change to the wiki. ==(insert proposal here) (insert date here)== (insert details of proposal here and sign with ~~~~) {{Support}} {{Oppose}} {{Neutral}} ===Discussion=== {{clear}} Multi-option vote: This is for proposals which include many possible changes to a particular element of policy. One option should always be to keep things as they were. It is recommended that no more than 8 options are given in a single proposal, including the "no change" option. ==(insert proposal here) (insert date here)== (insert details of proposal here and sign with ~~~~) {{Option|1|(option title 1)}} {{Option|2|(option title 2)}} {{Option|3|(option title 3)}} {{Option|etc.|(option title etc.)}} {{Neutral}} ===Discussion=== {{clear}} Multi-facet vote: This is for proposals which want to make several smaller changes to a single element of policy (for instance, making several changes to how the main page looks). Each change needs to be voted up or down individually. There should not be more than 5 parts to a proposal like this. This type of proposal should not be made without approval from wiki administration. ==(insert proposal here) (insert date here)== (insert summary of proposal here and sign with ~~~~) ===Change 1=== (insert details here) {{Support}} {{Oppose}} {{Neutral}} ====Change 1 discussion==== ===Change 2=== (insert details here) {{Support}} {{Oppose}} {{Neutral}} ====Change 2 discussion==== ===Change 3=== (insert details here) {{Support}} {{Oppose}} {{Neutral}} ====Change 3 discussion==== etc. {{clear}} Once a proposal is made, the voting period begins (see voting regulations below). Voting period for a proposal ends two weeks after it starts, at 23:59:59 UTC on the 14th full day of voting. An administrator can veto a proposal at any time, although such action should always be justifiable and agreed upon by multiple admins. Administrators should not use this right to add more weight to their own opinions. |
Restrictions |
Users may propose many different changes or additions to the wiki. The following things, however, may not be voted on:
|
Voting regulations
|
|
Current Proposals
Draw a line of what kind of artwork needs to be uploaded to the wiki (July 1, 2024 - July 15, 2024)
This discussion was kicked off due to recently uploaded artwork for Forgotten Land artwork that is just past artwork slightly rotated and with a simple shadow effect. See for yourself an example, of the Hammer artwork:
The main point of discussion of this proposal is how extensive we want our image archiving to be. The right artwork has been deemed by some people to be necessary for the wiki, while for others not necessary. This is obviously just one example, and I will post some others here that are similar but different to the above. So, do we want to draw a line for uploading similar artwork, and thus, how?
For the sake of simplicity, I will call the right image a simple edit of an existing piece of art. While "simple" is relative, I mean something that someone with a basic image editing program can do in a matter of minutes, and it is indeed an edit like that and it's very clear.
You may be wondering about other kinds of variations of artwork. With Hammer again, compare these two pieces of artwork:
At first glance, you may argue this is the same case as the previous one, after all the right one is rotated and with an outline. The reason why I consider them different is due to two main reasons: first, the outline added to the image isn't a simple addition like the shadow of the previous one. Adding a shadow around a transparent image is something you can do with a few clicks in Photoshop, same with a simple outline, but this outline is not simple. Take a closer look and you will see the outline is colored and matches the overall color of the part around it, which is how the outlines work in KRtDLD. This is actually my second point: this edit was done because KRtDLD has an artstyle and this is matching that. FL doesn't have the artstyle of "models have shadows around them", but KRtDLD has the artstyle of "dynamically colored outlines around models".
But let's look at another example, this time for Beam:
These images appear to be identical if you look at them quickly, but obviously they are different. They feature different shading, and Kirby's face is different as well. This is, like the previous example, an example of a piece of artwork that was edited to fit the artstyle of another game, but it's not a simple edit.
One last example, this time with Fire:
These two appear to be the case of the first one I listed for Hammer, and essentially that's true, but there is one more difference: Fire's hat. Notice the color of the gem, as well as the fire of the hat itself, it has different colors and overall looks different. So, this is yet another example of a not simple edit.
With these examples, I hope I defined simple edits and complex edits. Example 1 is the former, while examples 2, 3 and 4 are the latter.
For now, I want us to focus on these cases. I would like us to discuss this not thinking of cases of artwork with effects vs same artwork without effects (for example, this vs this), and group artwork vs single artwork (for example, this vs this), these can be another proposal if we see fit. Also, please ignore image quality and size in these, I feel these are separate. And again, of course, when I talk about edits, I mean official edits, not fan-made ones, so let's not think of fantransparency either.
So, in other words yet again, here is my definition of a simple edit:
- A simple edit to an image means any edit to an existing piece of artwork that can be quickly done in an image editing software. This includes rotating the image, flipping it, and applying a simple effect outside the image, like a shadow and a solid outline.
With all these in mind, I ask you all to vote what kind of images of similar artwork you feel should be on WiKirby. I know I cannot put every option, hence my attempt at defining a "simple" edit; if you all feel this needs to be tweaked, this can be in the future, but for now I ask you to vote on this proposal as is, aware that it can be adjusted in the future. - Gigi (talk • edits) 15:39, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
(In other words, none of the images to the right of my examples would be allowed in the wiki)
(In other words, the right image of the first example wouldn't be allowed in the wiki, the others would)
- First and only choice. My reasoning for this is because usually images with the "simple" edits are mostly created to fit a specific need for a specific website and nothing else; in fact, you will usually not find them outside of where they were originally posted as they are not edits to the artwork itself like the non-simple ones. For example, the artwork of Sword for Forgotten Land is not originally rotated and with a shadow like it is in the Japanese website, as evidenced by it in the Japanese FL guide. There is countless rotated artwork in websites for instance that if we don't draw a line, could be uploaded to WiKirby and feel redundant. Some examples found here: rotated Cupid artwork, rotated Mini, flipped Burning, rotated and with simple outline Bubble and Hi-Jump, flipped Freeze, etc. I don't feel any of these are different enough for us to go uploaded them on WiKirby. However, the non-simple edits I feel are justifiable since they are usually done to match a new artstyle, or to upload the design of what is being rendered, so I feel we should still allow them on WiKirby, as they are essentially different images. - Gigi (talk • edits) 15:39, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- First choice. Minor edits for presentation purposes isn't worth cluttering galleries with, our primary purpose isn't an archive. ---PinkYoshiFan 15:56, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- One of WiKirby's writing guidelines is to avoid bloat and covering every single detail regarding the article's subject. I believe the same philosophy can be applied to images. WiKirby isn't archive and shouldn't cover everything everything. While curating if an edit is minor or not can be considered arbitrary, I don't see it as any different from how we decide on e.g. how in-depth the descriptions of stage pages can be. Superbound (talk) 14:17, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
(In other words, all the images to the right of my examples would be allowed in the wiki, as it is right now)
- They're all still official images that I think we should include for the sake of both thoroughness and showing in the most accurate way possible how a subject was depicted in a particular instance. And even if some simple rotations made purely for use on websites and such could be argued as overkill, I don't see the need to establish hard rules preventing them rather than just handling this case-by-case, in case such an image edit with a more substantial usage and need to be uploaded crops up. Hewer (talk · contributions) 15:52, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Second choice. While I feel like some of the complex edits are things that aren't necessary to have around (e.g. RtDLD's multicolor outlines), there's other complex edits (e.g. small coloration differences) that I feel like are relevant and worth keeping. ---PinkYoshiFan 15:56, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- I agree with Hewer in that I think we should handle things in a more case-by-case situation. For example, I don't think we should delete any KTD versions of KRtDL renders due to the subtle changes that happened between games. I also think that having full sets of renders is pretty important or at least useful. We shouldn't use old renders to fill in the gaps and say "lol close enough" when we could have the actual correct artwork. ~ Waddlez3121 (click to navigate) 18:53, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- First and only choice. This leaves these matters completely closed to subjective interpretation and documents all official artwork and edits. However slight the difference may be, both the original and the edit are official art and I think they ought to be treated as such. -YFJ (talk · edits) 23:13, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- First and only choice. I agree with YFJ on that a lot of this is subjective interpretation and I believe that official art should be allowed even if they are just edits. They're still official at the end of the day NVS Pixel (talk) 16:37, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
Discussion
For people voting to allow any and all edits, do you all argue then that all images featured here need to be uploaded too? I am just curious if you have all understood what not drawing a line means in the end. - Gigi (talk • edits) 23:50, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
- I addressed that when I said it could be handled case-by-case as the images are needed rather than making hard rules to forbid certain official images. But honestly, I'm not personally seeing a big issue with uploading all of those. Hewer (talk · contributions) 01:54, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
Proposal Archive
Successful proposals
Failed proposals
Withdrawn proposals