Editing Talk:Copy Ability/Super Smash Bros.

== Pointing to SmashWiki ==

In reference to [https://wikirby.com/w/index.php?title=Copy_Ability%2FSuper_Smash_Bros.&type=revision&diff=122305&oldid=120190]: I didn't see any harm in pointing to move pages on the moves in Smash Bros. Made more sense to me, since it's Smash Bros.-related and not home-franchise. [[User:Tacopill|Tacopill]] ([[User talk:Tacopill|talk]]) 15:39, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

I'm the one that made that edit. Check my [[User_talk:Lordofninjas1|talk page]] discussion with [[User:Fubaka|Fubaka]] as to why the page links to those outside pages and such. If you don't want to read it I'll basically summarize it here: yes it is Smash Bros related, but the Smash Bros article on the moves and such only gives a small amount of information whereas the page about it from the outside link gives more info about it, and because this site, like many other Wikis, is meant to be encyclopedic, the more information we have on the subject the better, and since the outside links give more information they are more preferable to use on this, if that makes any sense. I also see that you went through and changed all the links to SmashWiki links when most of them linked to other Wikis within this Wikis network (NIWA), all those Wikis more or less link to each other in pages and stuff like this, as it's more a friendly sharing of information among allied sites, if that makes any sense.
[[User:Lordofninjas1|Lordofninjas1]] ([[User talk:Lordofninjas1|talk]]) 21:08, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Forgot to do it in my initial post, I'm tagging [[User:Tacopill|Tacopill]] here just so that they know to come look here and don't accidentally skip by it not knowing there is a reply here or whatever, since that has happened to me on other Wikis. 
[[User:Lordofninjas1|Lordofninjas1]] ([[User talk:Lordofninjas1|talk]]) 21:13, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
::Yea, I posted the above in response to what you said, and then gave it 24 hours for you to respond to. 
::I also noted that you said you chatted with the admins and mods, but outside of your own talk page, I didn't find much evidence of it, so it gave me the impression that only one was chatted with. I also asked on Discord, and no one seemed to know what I was talking about. 
::My edit wasn't meant to be disrespectful, and sorry if it came off that way.  Mine are subject to getting edited by anyone else in the wiki, just as everyone else's is. 
::So, rather than continue an edit war or pull an card on you, I'll offer a compromise: two columns, one to a wiki that describes the source of the move, one to Smash Wiki for move-related info. 
::What do you say? [[User:Tacopill|Tacopill]] ([[User talk:Tacopill|talk]]) 17:14, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
::Tagging [[User:Lordofninjas1|Lordofninjas1]]

not meaning to be rude when I say this, but why do you separate each point in your post like that? I thought it would be easier to just put it all in paragraph format. I wasn't aware that a time limit was put on your initial post. I apologize if I said or did something that gave you the impression that I thought you were being disrespectful, that wasn't my intent, I knew you weren't trying to be disrespectful. I am aware that your posts are subject to edit just as everyone else's. I'm not sure what you mean by "continue" an edit war, you edited it, I reversed it, you reversed my reverse, and it was left at that, had an edit war been occurring I would have continued to reverse your edits and so on, but I didn't, unless my account was somehow hacked and I wasn't aware of it and the hacker continued an edit war with you. I personally wouldn't mind having a section for links to both, but I'm curious as to what the admins and mods and other editors of the page would prefer, because I have a feeling it may become too "crowded" of a page, for lack of a better term, as well as maybe somewhat redundant if we were to add another section just for that, and I know Wikipedia and Wikis in general tend not to like that sort of thing. so I wouldn't mind going ahead with your compromise, but I can't speak for the others or if they have another sort of compromise for it or something. [[User:Pinkyoshifan|Pinkyoshifan]],[[User:Owencrazyboy17|Owencrazyboy17]], and [[User:YoshiFlutterJump|YoshiFlutterJump]] do any of you have anything to add to this?
[[User:Lordofninjas1|Lordofninjas1]] ([[User talk:Lordofninjas1|talk]]) 22:05, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
:I'd say probably SmashWiki since that's more about how it functions for Kirby, but if linking to fandom is allowed in policy, then I'm fine with it. {{User:Pinkyoshifan/sig}} 22:10, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
:Personally, I think SmashWiki gives plenty of information on the origin of the moves, and some moves were created just for Smash, so it helps to be consistent.  Plus, we typically prefer to link to affiliates such as SmashWiki as opposed to the series' respective wikis on Fandom. The ''characters'' should link to the respective series' wikis, however, and for the series that aren't covered by our affiliates, linking to Fandom is perfectly appropriate. -{{User:YoshiFlutterJump/sig}} 23:30, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
::I chat like that to represent the different thoughts I was having all at once. 
::I'm hoping to make reading easier for other people in this manner. 
::There wasn't a formal time limit, I just figured 24 hours would be enough time for people to respond. It's more of a personal guideline. 
::[[User:Tacopill|Tacopill]] ([[User talk:Tacopill|talk]]) 02:09, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

[[User:Pinkyoshifan|Pinkyoshifan]], I can understand that, though to me while the SmashWiki describes how it functions, this page is I feel more meant to link to a description of the actual basis and such, if that makes any sense. In other words, it's not a mechanics/function page, it's a description page, at least IMO. 

[[User:YoshiFlutterJump|YoshiFlutterJump]], while I agree that SmashWiki does give a good description of the mechanics of the moves in game, from looking at the pages, I've seen many that only give like a 1-2 sentence or so description of the origin and such, which I feel isn't enough for an encyclopedic site such as this, whereas the fandom links provide much more descriptive and encyclopedic information for it, if that makes any sense. Many of the move links prior to Tacopill's changes did link to the affiliate sites (Mario's Fireball move linked to the [[mariowiki:Fireball|Fireball]] Page on the MarioWiki in your affiliates, Link's Bow move linked to the [[zeldawiki:Bow|Bow]] Page on your affiliated ZeldaWiki, etc.), it was just the 3rd party moves that aren't part of your network (Sonic, Snake, Simon, Richter, Joker, etc.) and some of the 1st/2nd party moves that aren't part of your network (Shulk really being the only example of this that comes to mind) that linked out to Fandom pages, so it was the moves that aren't part of series covered by your network that did link out to Fandom, so as far as I'm aware It was pretty much following your exact thoughts on it prior to Tacopill's changes, I apologize for not making that more clear earlier. 

[[User:Tacopill|Tacopill]], fair enough I guess, not meaning to be rude when I say this, but just personally while it's not more difficult per say to read, it can be a bit more confusing to do it that way since everyone grows up learning how to read and write and stuff in paragraphs and such, more of a cognitive disconnect I guess you could say. plus staggering it like that is more often seen, and likely meant for, more casual conversations with friends on things like Facebook and Twitter and such, whereas on at least somewhat semi-formal pages, for lack of a better description, such as this it feels more out of place and such, if that makes any sense. While I understand the 24 hour thing, the issue is that many people have jobs and lives outside of this and such, and as such likely aren't able to respond, let alone check, this site and page and such for updates on a daily, or even sometimes a weekly basis, so even an informal 24 hour wait period does come across as a bit impatient and arguably a bit rude, I personally usually give it at least a week (7 days), taking the aforementioned into account, before I try to bump the post if no one responds, there have been times (like here) that I haven't, but that's just a personal thing I try to do.
[[User:Lordofninjas1|Lordofninjas1]] ([[User talk:Lordofninjas1|talk]]) 14:49, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
:So, moving forward, how is this?

<pre> 
{| class="sortable wikitable" style="padding:2px;"
|-
! class="sortable"   |Move Name <!-- links to smash wiki -->
! class="unsortable" |Appearance
! class="sortable"   |First game 
! class="sortable"   |Latest game
! class="sortable"   |Obtained from
! class="unsortable" |Description
! class="unsortable" |Move Source Links <!-- links to other wikis (NIWA, etc.) -->
! class="unsortable" |Notes
|-
|}
</pre>

:I also find putting spacing and quotes easier for me to read, and makes it match web design standards as I understand them. Feel free to recommend other column titles. 
:[[User:Tacopill|Tacopill]] ([[User talk:Tacopill|talk]]) 16:02, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::Looks good, although Appearance could be renamed to Image IMO. {{User:Pinkyoshifan/sig}} 16:23, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

[[User:Tacopill|Tacopill]], just a question, why are you showing this when it appears as though discussion on how we are going to organize this page and whether or not we are going with your proposition is ongoing? it feels a bit rushed and impatient on your part. I agreed that me personally I don't mind it that way, but we still have yet to hear back from [[User:YoshiFlutterJump|YoshiFlutterJump]] who is the editor-in-chief of the site (at least according to [[Help:Contents|these]] [[WiKirby:Ranks|pages]]), and thus tends to have final say and such, about whether they want it done the way you are proposing or what exactly, especially since I explained the situation a bit more clearly to them in my previous post about how it was before your edits and after your edits. the way they were talking comes across to me as though they may not be approving of the edit you are proposing, and may opt to do something different, but we don't know yet, as we've yet to hear back from them.
[[User:Lordofninjas1|Lordofninjas1]] ([[User talk:Lordofninjas1|talk]]) 21:36, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
:I'm not Tacopill, but I would like to say that A. Tacopill is still an admin, which, although not higher that yfj, is still high, and B. What they're suggesting lets us point to both smashwiki and the source pages, which would solve this discussion, so it would be helpful. Also, do you use [[WiKirby:Discord|discord?]] the chat on there would probably be faster and more convenient than this. {{User:Pinkyoshifan/sig}} 22:42, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
::I mean if you want my opinion then I think Tacopill's proposition works.  It's just adding an extra column and it would give readers all they needed to know.  In respect to it being cluttered, some of the columns look like they could be thinner and there would be plenty of room to add source moves.  I do think we should absolutely keep the SmashWiki links though, as they provide necessary information about the move as it relates to Smash, including any changes that may have been made to the source move. -{{User:YoshiFlutterJump/sig}} 23:04, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
:::Just to point out, in the case it needs to be said, all users are supposed to be equal and no admin should be pulling weight or rank on content-related stuff. YoshiFlutterJump's position (and other admins, by extension) is simply to guide and end discussions, making sure they stay civil; not force people to their viewpoint, style, etc. I should know, [https://wikirby.com/w/index.php?title=WiKirby:Editor-in-Chief&oldid=79679 I created the position]. 
:::Anyway, from my perspective, I was simply continuing the discussion, not trying to force us to do anything. I didn't see this as a multi-stage discussion? 
:::[[User:Tacopill|Tacopill]] ([[User talk:Tacopill|talk]]) 02:43, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

[[User:Pinkyoshifan|Pinkyoshifan]], yes, Tacopill is shown as an admin on the listings, but at least last time I checked when I go to view their user page they don't have the admin button, and I feel like they are only an admin because they own the server the site is on/created the site or whatever, it even shows they are more prevalent (and thus likely more important) on other wikis and such as well. I'm well aware what their suggesting would solve the discussion, I'm not saying it won't, I even agreed myself that we should go ahead with it, what I was trying to get at is to make sure everyone was in agreement that this should be done this way and make sure no one had any other ideas on how they wanted it done or if they wanted it done in the first place, if that makes any sense. I do use discord, however it's only a private discord for communicating with friends and family and such, and while discord would be faster, it wouldn't help people see the process that we went through to come to the ending and think it was just edited just because and edit it back because they don't like it or whatever, whereas if they see this, they can see that admins and such are in agreement with it, and if there are any issues with it we can point back to this as evidence and such. basically, doing it this way allows us to show our work, so to speak.

[[User:YoshiFlutterJump|YoshiFlutterJump]], if you are cool with it, then that's fine, I just wanted to make sure everyone was in agreement.

[[User:Tacopill|Tacopill]], I'm not saying any admin should be pulling weight or rank, what I was trying to say is that they are the highest ranking one, so as you said it's their job to guide and end discussions, meaning that essentially what they say goes since there isn't anyone really higher than them to tell them no, meaning we have to get their opinion on it to end this discussion and such, if that makes any sense. In other words, they aren't pulling rank themselves, which is what you said shouldn't happen, I'm pulling it for them, if that makes any sense. I apologize if you thought I was saying you were trying to force anything, that wasn't my intent, what I was trying to say is that post was a bit premature is all, and that it should have waited until everyone involved with the conversation had their say on it (whether they agreed or had another idea of how it could work or if their idea was to not do it or whatever) before we moved forward. in other words, I was just trying to get everyone to have a chance to weigh in on it before starting to develop how to code it or whatever, if that makes any sense. not sure what you mean by multi-stage discussion, I just figured it worked like any discussion does, you ask questions or talk about something, make sure everyone is in agreement or whatever, then once you are sure everyone is in agreement go ahead with the changes or whatever, basically, we just needed to wait so we weren't stepping on anyone's toes, so to speak, or anything like that, as it just felt a little too rushed is all if that makes any sense. since we have now heard back from YFJ, and everyone is in agreement with it, if it's not already done the changes can be made.
[[User:Lordofninjas1|Lordofninjas1]] ([[User talk:Lordofninjas1|talk]]) 17:02, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
:Ok, implimented. Feel free to add, remove, etc. I tried to include "from X Wiki" in a few of them, so people know it's a link to another site. [[User:Tacopill|Tacopill]] ([[User talk:Tacopill|talk]]) 20:14, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

== Something not about where to link ==

So... if we're not going to have [[User talk:Trig Jegman/Sandbox#Old Smash images to consider deletion|the older smash ability images]] on here and they're [[Special:UnusedFiles|unused]], should we go ahead and get rid of them? {{User:Pinkyoshifan/sig}} 18:54, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
:I think they shouldn't be deleted. Maybe they could be used in a gallery of Super Smash Bros. 4. [[User:pandakekok9|pandakekok9]] ([[User talk:pandakekok9|poyo]]) 01:40, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
::In any case we should be consistent about it.  If we keep the images then we should upload new ones to show every incarnation of every ability, else we just delete them all and only keep the Ultimate ones.  Tbh at this point I don't think they're really worth keeping considering Kirby's abilities don't really change much in Smash, but I'll let y'all decide which route we take. -{{User:YoshiFlutterJump/sig}} 02:31, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
@@ Line 72: / Line 72: @@
 :I think they shouldn't be deleted. Maybe they could be used in a gallery of Super Smash Bros. 4. [[User:pandakekok9|pandakekok9]] ([[User talk:pandakekok9|poyo]]) 01:40, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
 ::In any case we should be consistent about it.  If we keep the images then we should upload new ones to show every incarnation of every ability, else we just delete them all and only keep the Ultimate ones.  Tbh at this point I don't think they're really worth keeping considering Kirby's abilities don't really change much in Smash, but I'll let y'all decide which route we take. -{{User:YoshiFlutterJump/sig}} 02:31, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
-I'd be cool either way. if we keep them, fine, if not, that's fine too. That being said, looking on this wiki and other wikis both in and out of NIWA, images like that do seem to tend to be kept and put into a gallery of some kind. [[Sword]] is a great example of this, the move doesn't change all that much (to [[User:YoshiFlutterJump|YoshiFlutterJump]]'s point), yet in the gallery section on the page is all/a lot of the official artworks and many of the in-game sprites for the ability, and I know many other NIWA Wikis and other Wikis do the same as well. I'm aware that there will be a lot of photos should this be done, but I've seen [[mariowiki:|mariowiki]], and other wikis as well, do something where they have the gallery on a separate page and just have a link on the actual page to go to the gallery with a ton of images on it. It would make this page different from [[smashwiki:|smashwiki]]'s [[smashwiki:List of Copy Abilities|Copy Ability]] page and follow the formatting of many associated Wikis and the like, and I know that's most of the time preferred and appreciated.
-[[User:Lordofninjas1|Lordofninjas1]] ([[User talk:Lordofninjas1|talk]]) 15:43, 28 May 2020 (UTC)