Editing Talk:Normal (disambiguation)

==Give "Normal" ability a proper page==
I admit this is an odd one, and there may be an overlap with the [[Kirby]] page (more on that), but honestly, I feel this is worth discussing, or at least to see if this page redirecting to Kirby makes sense.

"Normal" has been, oddly enough, often referred to as a Copy Ability, in particular in recent years. The most notable example has been on Kirby Portal and the Kirby Twitter, which [https://twitter.com/kirby_jp/status/1151038802116468737 introduced it alongside many other abilities some years ago, specifically calling it a Copy Ability like the others]. It is listed on the [https://www.kirby.jp/ability/ Kirby Portal ability list on the website] alongside all other regular copy abilities, [https://www.kirby.jp/ability/copy/normal.html and has its own section], and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Cg8ZnA4aFg video]. The Japanese Kirby wiki [https://kirby.fandom.com/ja/wiki/%E3%81%99%E3%81%A3%E3%81%B4%E3%82%93 has a page for it], and also mentions that the semi-recent book that documents Copy Abilities also has "Normal" listed as the first ability ever.

The definition of "Normal" is different from just, you know, "Kirby", also. The Kirby Portal page's appearances lists all games where Kirby can inhale and spit and/or copy abilities, not every single game where Kirby appears. It lists games where Kirby can only inhale but not copy abilities (''[[Kirby's Dream Land]]'', ''[[Kirby's Dream Collection Special Edition]]'' (see notes later), ''[[Kirby's Blowout Blast]]''), and games where Kirby can't inhale but can copy abilities (''[[Kirby's Dream Course]]'', ''[[Kirby's Block Ball]]'', ''[[Kirby: Canvas Curse]]'', ''[[Kirby's Dream Buffet]]''). Not that it lists games where Kirby can copy abilities, and not all games with copy abilities; in particular, the [[Kirby Fighters]] and [[Team Kirby Clash]] games aren't listed, because Kirby can't copy abilities in those, so they have no "Normal". Meanwhile, games were Kirby appears and can attack, but cannot copy abilities, aren't listed, like ''[[Kirby's Pinball Land]]'', ''[[Kirby Mass Attack]]'' and ''[[Kirby and the Rainbow Curse]]''. Normal is about Kirby's main things, which are inhaling and copying abilities, but only one of them is enough for it to count as "Normal".

Cool, but what then? You may argue these are all external sources and this was never acknowledged in a game. Well, it was, many times actually:

*[[:File:KA Normal icon.png|Kirby's sprite for no ability in ''Kirby's Adventure'']];
*[[Normal Beam]] - named that after the Normal state. I mean, only Kirby on his Normal state can use it, and in Japanese it's called すっぴんビーム, and すっぴん is one of the two names of the Normal state of Kirby;
*[[Normal Challenge]] - a challenge in ''Dream Collection'' about, well, the Normal state. It's even named properly in the description of that challenge;
*[[Normal Treasure]] - shortened names of two [[Treasure Road]] stages centered around the Normal state.

Okay, but what about overlap in coverage? Honestly, I feel this would be similar to [[Swim]], that basically describes more broadly Kirby's state when he's on water, which I feel would be a similar coverage of this page. Considering "Normal" is different from Kirby as a character, I feel it's worth a separate page even if not a lengthy one, due to the content it will have, and more than one games having content surrounding said Normal state.

So, what do you all think? {{User:Gigi/sig}} 00:02, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

I think this is a little silly, but I also see that there's legitimate justification here. I think it's worth doing, but if we're playing nose-goes to figure out who's responsible for redirects, consider me safe. [[User:Waddlez3121|Waddlez3121]] ([[User talk:Waddlez3121|talk]]) 01:25, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
:I definitely think that there's enough reason for Normal to have a page (in addition to the points mentioned, it's not a [[Kirby]]-exclusive thing since [[Keeby]] has an abilityless state). Would the best formatting be similar to other existing Copy Ability pages, or would it be different since Normal is a special case? {{User:Pinkyoshifan/sig}} 02:10, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
::Oh yeah, good point about Keeby. And good question. I feel it would be worth formatting as a Copy Ability page since it's considered one in a way, just that it's not really obtainable in any form (it's just Kirby's default state), but I guess that's similar to [[Wrestler]]. And it's also a weird case like [[Ghost]] is. I could make a draft of a possible page for it soon. {{User:Gigi/sig}} 12:18, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
:::Working on a draft [[User:Gigi/Sandbox/Normal|here]]. Honestly the biggest question I have right now is how we want to address movesets. Do we want to carry over what we have in the [[Kirby]] page or what? {{User:Gigi/sig}} 14:45, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
::::Carry over whatever is Normal-exclusive I suppose. {{User:ShadowKirby/sig}} 14:56, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
:::::Carrying over whatever's Normal-exclusive seems like the best option, but what about Hover, Air Bullet, Water Gun, and Dodge? Some Copy Abilities override/remove those, but not all of them do. {{User:Pinkyoshifan/sig}} 16:41, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
::::::I suppose this page would work as long as it specifically focuses on abilities Kirby can do when he doesn't have a Copy Ability. It would allow us to elaborate on the Kirby's moveset table that's currently on the [[Kirby]] page as well. If this page is done, I would suggest linking to it from the Kirby page there, and moving the table to this page to elaborate on it. --[[User:Samwell|Samwell]] ([[User talk:Samwell|talk]]) 18:54, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
:::::::It was suggested by Owen I believe on Discord to add moveset tables per game. I think that is reasonable for most games, as the [[Kirby#Moveset]] section right now feels very, very long and also lists some things Kirby can do with and without Normal. For games with movesets listed on pause descriptions, I would list them, and as for games without them, I would only list them if they make sense (for example, I don't feel one is needed for ''Canvas Curse''). Anyway, other than the movesets and some images, the bulk of the Normal page is done in the draft I linked above, and anyone is welcome to help. {{User:Gigi/sig}} 23:30, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
::::::::A quick bump just to say that I will likely move the draft to mainspace even if not complete with the movesets, I just want to polish a bit each section before I do so. Plan to do it in the next couple days. {{User:Gigi/sig}} 17:48, 16 January 2024 (UTC)