WiKirby talk:Abbreviations

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The Great Debate: KSS vs KSuS (January 15, 2021 - January 22, 2021)[edit]

We at the staff have been going to town reforming WiKirby:Abbreviations to standardize one abbreviation per game, and to cut out unnecessary abbreviations. The purpose of this policy page is to standardize file name patterns and make them easier to find and link to. But we hit one point of strong contention within the staff: should we ditch KSuS and assign KSS to Super Star? It's a very split issue and we agreed to see the community's thoughts. Below are some text walls making a case for each side, written by Samwell (Talk) as well as yours truly.

YoshiFlutterJump's case (Use KSuS)[edit]

I think we should use KSuS to refer to Kirby Super Star in filenames. The alternative, KSS, is an ambiguous abbreviation that could be used for Super Star, Squeak Squad, and Star Stacker. Star Stacker is fairly obscure and therefore not a real issue, but Squeak Squad is, like Super Star, a main series Kirby game and a fairly popular one at that. The opposition claims that most people use KSS to refer to Super Star, but in my experience, people have used KSS for both. Just look at our own boxart filenames for the two--two completely different games, but a glance at the filenames might suggest that they represent the same thing. It's rather confusing and can easily be avoided by using KSuS.

The opposition also claims that KSS is more likely to be used by unsuspecting newcomers...and I don't deny that. But they are not only more likely to use it for Super Star--they are also more likely to use it for Squeak Squad. As I said before, both are fairly popular games, and you can just look at the box art filenames I linked to tell you that this is very true for both games. Additionally, it is much easier to find and correct filenames that use KSS when no game is assigned by policy to use that abbreviation. Using KSS to refer to Super Star makes it more difficult to find and correct the Squeak Squad files, since they're buried among the Super Star files, and the same goes if we give KSS to Squeak Squad. KSS may well be more commonly used for Super Star, but I don't think it is to an extent that would outweigh the benefits of avoiding use of KSS altogether.

I rest my case.

Samwell's case (Use KSS)[edit]

Arguments for using KSS instead of KSuS for Super Star:

  • KSS is almost universally recognized as the abbreviation for Super Star in the wider Kirby fan community.
  • KSS is cleaner than KSuS and does not need any lowercase letters to distinguish.
  • KSS matches with KSSU for Kirby Super Star Ultra which is already widely used in the wiki.
  • Any file confusion can be rectified with name changes, and use of KSS to refer to Squeak Squad or Star Stacker will still happen regardless of what abbreviation we use.
  • Kirby Super Star is a far more important game to the Kirby series than Squeak Squad, so the abbreviation priority should reflect that.

Arguments against using KSS:

  • KSS is ambiguous, could refer to Super Star, Squeak Squad, or Star Stacker.
  • It will be easier to spot and correct naming errors involving KSS if none of the games use it.
  • All Kirby games are special, and none should be considered more or less important than the other.

Voting[edit]

So, which abbreviation should we use to refer to Kirby Super Star in filenames? Vote below! (And if you have any ideas for another abbreviation, post them below too!) After we have come to a decision on this, the full tentative list will be posted on WiKirby:Proposals for formal voting. -YFJ (talk · edits) 20:28, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Use KSuS[edit]

  1. Well, I obviously support this option--otherwise I wouldn't have written that long text wall. -YFJ (talk · edits) 20:28, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
  2. Shared abbreviations are only OK if one game is a lot more important than the others. Super Star and Squeak Squad is not that. ---PinkYoshiFan 20:29, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Use KSS[edit]

  1. Per my own text wall, I support this option. Let the games begin. --Samwell (talk) 20:28, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
  2. Per the reasons stated in its favor. I've been in this fandom for over a decade now, and I've yet to see anyone think KSS was referring to Squeak Squad or Star Stacker. Much like every time someone has said KA they were referring to Adventure and not Avalanche. So if we are going to use KA to refer to Adventure, I don't see why KSS shouldn't be used to refer to Super Star. - Gigi (talkedits) 20:33, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
  3. Samwell made some great points, but what really tips things for me is the symmetry, in two ways. Firstly, SqSq has a nice visual effect that I enjoy, whereas KSuS feels lopsided. Secondly, and what I see to be the most important part, KSS mirrors with KSSU. While I understand that KSSU has no ambiguity and therefore would not need to be abbreviated as KSuSU (which, ironically, looks better than KSuS by my first point), the fact that the two acronyms would not match feels unnecessarily disparate to me. KSS and KSSU are a match set, and the potential ambiguity is quickly rectified by any length of time on this website and in the community. LeoUnlimited (talk) 20:44, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
  4. Agreed for KSS per the listed reasons; it's the most common abbreviation for it, it matches with "KSSU", and the other two have different abbreviations that are easier to distinguish. Another part is that "ksus" could be difficult to distinguish from "kssu" if typed in lowercase, which I think would be a bigger problem considering how closely tied the two games are. As mentioned, if we're using "KA" exclusively for Adventure, "KSS" is fine to use for Super Star. StrawberryChan (talk) 21:18, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
  5. In all my time as a Kirby fan, I have never met anyone referring to Squeak Squad as KSS, only SqSq or the european abbreviation KMA. KSS is used and associated with Super Star far more commonly, so I fully support TeamKSS. Infinite Possibilities (talk) 21:26, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
  6. I'm voting for KSS because it would line up neatly with its remake KSSU. It should be more common with editors to always use KSqS for Kirby: Squeak Squad and old files should be corrected. Nothing to do with importance, but convenience. —Viperision (talk) 00:16, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
  7. Per the reasons listed. I've only seen KSS used to refer to Kirby Super Star. --Obsessive Mario Fan 04:17, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
  8. I highly doubt we should use KSuS as the abbreviation for Kirby Super Star. KSS has been referred to as Super Star for a long time, and I've seen it in the Kirby fandom very often. I see no need to change it to KSuS (it can also be a typo for KSSU as said by StrawberryChan, which can be very confusing). I refer to Squeak Squad as "SqSq" (which sounds nicer) and as for Star Stacker, I just think "KStSt" would fit nicely, too. Hexelectron (talk) 07:40, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
  9. Don't see KSuS being used too much in any site, people usually use KSS for Super Star and SqSq for Squeak Squad. Also i feel that KSS is cleaner than the first. Borb (talk) 19:11, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
  10. KSS is consistent with KSSU (and we definitely should not use KSuSU). Comparing KSS with KSqS, the user in question should quickly catch which is which. I was leaning towards KSuS at first. However, per all reasons above, I feel this option will be the best one to take. -- MetaDragon (talk) 02:05, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Neutral Comments[edit]

  1. KSS has a better look, but KSuS would be absolutely clear which game is in question... Both ways involve me renaming a lot so I think I'll stay neutral on this one. ;) --kirb (talk · edits) 23:15, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
  2. I personally prefer KSS, and it works well with KSSU for Super Star Ultra. But YFJ makes a good point about clarity. Staying neutral for now. pandakekok9 (poyo) 05:41, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
  3. As long as file's name is descriptive, I'm fine with either. Superbound (talk) 17:03, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
  4. I think KSS sounds better, but KSuS is more clear. I will stay neutral. User:Junethebest/sig 10:18, 22 January 2021"[[User:Junethebest|Junethebest]] ([[User talk:Junethebest|talk]])"
  5. Hwoof. How do these discussions get started? Is there a list of debates we need to have, or something? Well, I'm hearing really good arguments from both sides. At first glance, I thought, "Oh yeah, totally make it KSS." but then I read the arguments against it, and now I have no clue what to think. Gonna stay neutral for this one. -Mags (talk) 16:07, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

Discussion[edit]

While we're having this discussion, I figured I might as well post the tentative list of abbreviations we've decided on. If anyone here has feedback, please share!

Kirby's Dream Land - KDL
Kirby's Adventure - KA
Kirby's Pinball Land - KPL
Kirby's Dream Course - KDC
Kirby's Dream Land 2 - KDL2
Kirby's Avalanche - KAv
Kirby's Block Ball - KBBa
Kirby Super Star - KSuS OR KSS
Kirby's Star Stacker - KSSGB
Kirby's Dream Land 3 - KDL3
Kirby's Star Stacker (SNES) - KSSS
Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards - K64
Kirby Tilt 'n' Tumble - KTnT
Kirby: Nightmare in Dream Land - KNiDL
Kirby Air Ride - KAR
Kirby & The Amazing Mirror - KaTAM
Kirby: Canvas Curse - KCC
Kirby: Squeak Squad - KSqS
Kirby Super Star Ultra - KSSU
Kirby's Epic Yarn - KEY
Kirby Mass Attack - KMA
Kirby's Return to Dream Land - KRtDL
Kirby's Dream Collection Special Edition - KDCSE
Kirby: Triple Deluxe - KTD
Kirby Fighters Deluxe - KFD
Dedede's Drum Dash Deluxe - DDDD
Kirby and the Rainbow Curse - KatRC
Kirby: Planet Robobot - KPR
Team Kirby Clash Deluxe - TKCD
Kirby's Blowout Blast - KBBl
Kirby Battle Royale - KBR
Kirby Star Allies - KSA
Kirby's Extra Epic Yarn - KEEY
Super Kirby Clash - SKC
Kirby Fighters 2 - KF2

Super Smash Bros. games
Super Smash Bros. - SSB64
Super Smash Bros. Melee - SSBM
Super Smash Bros. Brawl - SSBB
Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U - SSB4
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - SSBU
-YFJ (talk · edits) 21:12, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

For Kirby & The Amazing Mirror I prefer KTAM for its ampersandless abbrevation. —Viperision (talk) 00:16, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
I agree. KTAM is fine, we don't need the "and" for file names. Same goes for KatRC vs KRC. --kirb (talk · edits) 23:16, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

use KSStar. Superbound (talk) 14:49, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

I think we should leave "and" in all the abbreviations, and "KSStar" is interesting, but I don't think it is necessary. -- MetaDragon (talk) 01:45, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

List of some files that will be affected:

*[[:File:Beginner's Show KSS.jpg]]
*[[:File:BirdonEnemyPaletteSpriteKSS.png]]
*[[:File:BirdonSpriteKSS.png]]
*[[:File:Channel PPP - KSStr on NSO.jpg]]
*[[:File:Chef Kawasaki KSS SK sprite.png]]
*[[:File:Cook SuSt.png]]
*[[:File:Cook SuSt.png]]
*[[:File:Fighter SuSt.png]]
*[[:File:Fire SuSt.png]]
*[[:File:Fountain of Dreams KSS.png]]
*[[:File:Halberd destroyed in KSS.png]]
*[[:File:Jet SuSt.png]]
*[[:File:King Dedede KSS artwork.png]]
*[[:File:King Dedede KSS SK sprite.png]]
*[[:File:Kirby KSS Samurai Kirby sprite.png]]
*[[:File:Kirby SuSt Sprite.png]]
*[[:File:KSS Beam Boxart Artwork.png]]
*[[:File:KSS Beam.png]]
*[[:File:KSS Birdon artwork.png]]
*[[:File:KSS Bomb.png]]
*[[:File:KSS Box NA.jpg]]
*[[:File:KSS Computer Virus Artwork.png]]
*[[:File:KSS Cutter.png]]
*[[:File:KSS DededeGourmetRace.png]]
*[[:File:KSS DededeKirbyRivalry.png]]
*[[:File:KSS Echigo Candy Treasure Sprite.png]]
*[[:File:KSS Game Over continue.png]]
*[[:File:KSS Game Over end.png]]
*[[:File:KSS Game Over options.png]]
*[[:File:KSS Game Over.png]]
*[[:File:KSS Japanese Logo.png]]
*[[:File:KSS Kracko Sprite.png]]
*[[:File:KSS M MilkyWayWishes.png]]
*[[:File:KSS Mario References.gif]]
*[[:File:KSS Moto Shotzo artwork.png]]
*[[:File:KSS Nova Stage.jpg]]
*[[:File:KSS Parasol Dee sprite.png]]
*[[:File:KSS Parasol Doo sprite.png]]
*[[:File:KSS prototype.png]]
*[[:File:KSS Reactor Screenshot.png]]
*[[:File:KSS RevengeOfMetaKnight01.png]]
*[[:File:KSS Screw Ball Treasure Sprite.png]]
*[[:File:KSS Seiryu Sword Treasure Sprite.png]]
*[[:File:KSS Springtime Heart Sprite.png]]
*[[:File:KSS Star Stone Treasure Sprite.png]]
*[[:File:KSS Surprised Kirby Sprite.png]]
*[[:File:KSS Wheelie Rider.png]]
*[[:File:KSS Whip Treasure Sprite.png]]
*[[:File:KSS WhispyWoods.png]]
*[[:File:KSS Zebra Mask Treasure Sprite.png]]
*[[:File:KSSArtBurninLeo.png]]
*[[:File:KSSArtRocky.png]]
*[[:File:KSSArtStone.png]]
*[[:File:KSSAxKnight.png]]
*[[:File:KSSBiospark.png]]
*[[:File:KSSBladeKnight.png]]
*[[:File:KSSBlipper.png]]
*[[:File:KSSBomber.png]]
*[[:File:KSSBonkers.png]]
*[[:File:KSSBounder.png]]
*[[:File:KSSBroomHatter.png]]
*[[:File:KSSBugzzy.png]]
*[[:File:KSSBurninLeo.png]]
*[[:File:KSSCappyCover.png]]
*[[:File:KSSCappyUncovered.png]]
*[[:File:KSSCapsuleJ.png]]
*[[:File:KSSChefKawasaki.png]]
*[[:File:KSSChilly.png]]
*[[:File:KSSCoconut.png]]
*[[:File:KSSGator.png]]
*[[:File:KSSGim.png]]
*[[:File:KSSGlunk.png]]
*[[:File:KSSGordo.png]]
*[[:File:KSSGrizzo.png]]
*[[:File:KSSIronMom.png]]
*[[:File:KSSJavelinKnight.png]]
*[[:File:KSSJukid.png]]
*[[:File:KSSJungleBomb.png]]
*[[:File:KSSKabu.png]]
*[[:File:KSSKirbyHurt.png]]
*[[:File:KSSKnuckleJoe.png]]
*[[:File:KSSKrackoJr.png]]
*[[:File:KSSLalala.png]]
*[[:File:KSSLaserBall.png]]
*[[:File:KSSLololo.png]]
*[[:File:KSSLovely.png]]
*[[:File:KSSMaceKnight.png]]
*[[:File:KSSMagicalSweeper.png]]
*[[:File:KSSMotoShotzo.png]]
*[[:File:KSSMrFrosty.png]]
*[[:File:KSSMtDedede.png]]
*[[:File:KSSNoddy.png]]
*[[:File:KSSParasol.png]]
*[[:File:KSSPlasmaWisp.png]]
*[[:File:KSSPoppyBrosJr.png]]
*[[:File:KSSPoppyBrosSr.png]]
*[[:File:KSSRocky.png]]
*[[:File:KSSShotzo.png]]
*[[:File:KSSSimirror.png]]
*[[:File:KSSSirKibble.png]]
*[[:File:KSSSlippy.png]]
*[[:File:KSSSquishy.png]]
*[[:File:KSSTAC.png]]
*[[:File:KSSTookey.png]]
*[[:File:KSSTridentKnight.png]]
*[[:File:KSSTwinWoods.png]]
*[[:File:KSSTwizzy.png]]
*[[:File:KSSWaddleDee.png]]
*[[:File:KSSWaddleDoo.png]]
*[[:File:KSSWalky.png]]
*[[:File:KSSWheelie.png]]
*[[:File:KSuS Adviser.png]]
*[[:File:KSuS Bomb Sprite.png]]
*[[:File:KSuS Box Japan.jpg]]
*[[:File:KSuS CG Designer.png]]
*[[:File:KSuS Chef Kawasaki SK Splash Bar.png]]
*[[:File:KSuS Designer.png]]
*[[:File:KSuS Director.png]]
*[[:File:KSuS Executive Producer.png]]
*[[:File:KSuS Heavy Lobster Artwork.png]]
*[[:File:KSuS King Dedede SK Splash Bar.png]]
*[[:File:KSuS Kirby SK Splash Bar.png]]
*[[:File:KSuS Logo.png]]
*[[:File:KSuS Mapper.png]]
*[[:File:KSuS Meta Knight Artwork 1.jpg]]
*[[:File:KSuS Meta Knight Artwork 2.jpg]]
*[[:File:KSuS Meta Knight SK Splash Bar.png]]
*[[:File:KSuS Meta Knight SK Sprite.png]]
*[[:File:KSuS Producer.png]]
*[[:File:KSuS Programmer.png]]
*[[:File:KSuS Project Manager.png]]
*[[:File:KSuS Sound Composer.png]]]]
*[[:File:KSuS Waddle Doo SK Splash Bar.png]]
*[[:File:KSuS Wheelie SK Splash Bar.png]]
*[[:File:KSuSt hammerkirby.jpg]]
*[[:File:KSuSt normal parasolkirby.jpg]]
*[[:File:KSuSt PopStar.png]]
*[[:File:Mallow Castle KSS courtyard.png]]
*[[:File:Mario Statue KSS sprite.png]]
*[[:File:Marx KSS battle.png]]
*[[:File:Marx's wish KSS.png]]
*[[:File:Mike SuSt.png]]
*[[:File:Milky Way Wishes KSS title screen.png]]
*[[:File:Mine Cart KSS screenshot.png]]
*[[:File:Mirror SuSt.png]]
*[[:File:Paint SuSt.png]]
*[[:File:Plasma SuSt.png]]
*[[:File:PoppyBrosJrKSS.png]]
*[[:File:Revenge of Meta Knight KSS title screen.png]]
*[[:File:Samurai Kirby KSS gameplay.png]]
*[[:File:Scarfy angered KSS sprite.png]]
*[[:File:Scarfy KSS sprite.png]]
*[[:File:SpriteBiosparkKSS.png]]
*[[:File:SpriteBladeKnightKSS.png]]
*[[:File:SpriteBonkersKSS.png]]
*[[:File:SpriteBugzzyKSS.png]]
*[[:File:SpriteBurningLeoKSS.png]]
*[[:File:SpriteChillyKSS.png]]
*[[:File:SpriteGimKSS.png]]
*[[:File:SpriteKnuckleJoeKSS.png]]
*[[:File:SpriteParasolWDeeKSS.png]]
*[[:File:SpritePlasmaWispKSS.png]]
*[[:File:SpriteRockyKSS.png]]
*[[:File:SpriteSimirrorKSS.png]]
*[[:File:SpriteSirKibbleKSS.png]]
*[[:File:SpriteTacKSS.png]]
*[[:File:SpriteWdDooKSS.png]]
*[[:File:SpriteWheelieKSS.png]]
*[[:File:SS Kirby Jump.png]]
*[[:File:Suplex SuSt.png]]
*[[:File:Switch KSS sprite.png]]
*[[:File:Sword SuSt.png]]
*[[:File:The Arena KSS title screen.png]]
*[[:File:The Great Cave Offensive KSS title screen.png]]
*[[:File:Waddle Doo KSS SK sprite.png]]
*[[:File:Wheel SuSt.png]]
*[[:File:Wheelie KSS SK sprite.png]]
*[[:File:Wing SuSt.png]]
*[[:File:Yo-Yo SuSt.png]]
*[[:File:Acchi SS.png]]
*[[:File:BFire Pedestal KSS.png]]
*[[:File:Biospark SS.png]]
*[[:File:Bohboh SS.png]]
*[[:File:BubbleHead SS.png]]
*[[:File:Bun SS.png]]
*[[:File:Cret SS.png]]
*[[:File:Crimp SS.png]]
*[[:File:Daroach Roach SS.png]]
*[[:File:GawGaw SS.png]]
*[[:File:Gussa SS.png]]
*[[:File:Kirby Bubble Art SS.png]]
*[[:File:KSS Mecha Kracko Artwork.png]]
*[[:File:KSS Yadogaine Artwork.png]]
*[[:File:KSSLogo.png]]
*[[:File:KSSquad Korean logo.jpg]]
*[[:File:Maiga SS.png]]
*[[:File:Metalun SS.png]]
*[[:File:Mrs Moley SS.png]]
*[[:File:Perara SS.png]]
*[[:File:SapphireCutterSS.png]]
*[[:File:Spinni Sprite SS.png]]
*[[:File:KStSScrKine.png]]
*[[:File:KStSScrRick.png]]

That's a lot of files. Superbound (talk) 17:41, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, there's gonna have to be a lot of file renaming in order to set the record straight regardless of the outcome of this proposal. --Samwell (talk) 17:47, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
Aye but I can move them all no problem. --kirb (talk · edits) 17:48, 18 January 2021 (UTC)