Talk:Kirby Super Star Ultra

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Despite being vandalized, I don't want to delete this talk page, because it'll give people a warning if they have something genuine to write here. So I'm placing this message for now. Axiomist 22:18, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Needs expansion[edit]

If you look at the articles for Kirby Super Star or Kirby and the Amazing Mirror, we have sprites for every enemy in the game + a description, all in a nice table. We need that here, and I don't have the time to put each enemy sprite in a seperate image, make it transparent, upload it here, put it all in a table and add a description. So I'm just suggesting that someone who has the time to do it please. --Triple D is awesome 15:27, 12 August 2011 (CDT)

It definitely needs that; I made the tables in the articles you linked and was trying to make those a standard for every game that has enemies in it (it was one of the reasons I wanted Kirby's Dream Land 2 featured so badly, with all its sortable tables and images). Unfortunately, I don't have this game, so I cannot help much here. If anyone intends to make tables though, the featured article and the ones linked by TripleD should sufficiently illustrate how it's done if you view the source. I request that my text from the Kirby Super Star article not simply be copied for returning antagonists, though; not only would the edit history credit whoever copies it for something they didn't write, but it's also not very interesting to have the same text in two articles.--Vellidragon 15:40, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
Maybe we could give a very brief description of the enemy, then spend most of the space talking about what has changed about their appearance or attacks. --Triple D is awesome 17:49, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
That would require anyone reading the article to already have prior knowledge about the original SNES game to fully profit from it, and I don't think we should assume that everyone reading this already knows all about the original. We can have a section summing up the (more major) differences between the original and the remake, though, and if anything notable changed about an individual enemy or the like, we can mention it in the respective subject's article.--Vellidragon 18:30, 12 August 2011 (CDT)
I am going to make transparent images of every enemy in KSSU this week. Please, no one make these because we will have duplicates. MY ideas for table: Sprite, Original Sprite, Name, Description, Ability, Appearances (Spring Breeze, Dyna Blade, Great Cave Offense, Revenge of Meta, Milky Way Wishes, Revenge of the King). --Triple D is awesome 15:55, 15 August 2011 (CDT)
Sounds good, though I'm not sure if we need the original sprites in the table; unless someone wants to compare every sprite in the game to the original game's sprites for some reason, they are pretty much useless and the horizontal space they take away might be needed; as far as I can tell, this is already going to be a very wide table as it is. Also, not sure if you are saying you're intending to arrange the headings like that, but it would be better to have the "recurring" headings in the same order as in similar tables (and use the same names as those), i.e. Name first, then Appearance, etc. It may cause unnecessary confusion for similar tables to be organised in different ways for no discernible reason.--Vellidragon 16:05, 15 August 2011 (CDT)
I was merely listing the categories that I wanted to see if there was anything I missed. The normal Kirby Super Star page has the HP and score listed, and I don't feel like going through the game and figuring it out, plus most users won't care. The "original sprite" thing was mainly so we could compare characters like Capsule J and J2, but we could just say it looks different from the original and link to capsule J's page. --Triple D is awesome 17:36, 15 August 2011 (CDT)
Yeah, if an entirely different enemy replaced an older one, that can go in the description column. Only two enemies were replaced anyway, as far as I'm aware. That's a shame that it won't have HP and score, but I guess it can't be helped unless someone else decides to figure them out. I disagree with your view that "most users won't care" though, as both of these, especially the HP, are indeed relevant and part of the complete coverage of the game's enemies, and I feel that attention to potentially overlooked things like that helps make WiKirby different from other, similar sites.--Vellidragon 17:49, 15 August 2011 (CDT)
The thing about Kirby Super Star (Ultra) is that the only boss with their HP in numbers is the Computer Virus. so to calculate Waddle Doo's HP, you must do one very weak attack (one feather from wing ability, etc) on computer virus, find out how much that does in numbers, then see how much it does to Waddle Doo. But if a feather is 4 damage and Doo has 11 HP, he'll get killed after three hits, so he could have anywhere between 9-12 HP. So you have to choose another attack (like the ninja knife) that for the purposes of this example does 5 damage, he also takes 3 hits (first: 5, second: 5, third: 1) so from the ninja ability you can conclude he has between 10-15. The otherlapping numbers are still 11 and 12, so you have to do an attack that does 11 damage and see if that's a one-hit KO. So calculating HP is a very complicated process. For the returning enemies, we could assume that the HP is the same as it was in Kirby Super Star and copy-paste it from the KSS page, but we don't know what minor changes have been made. Once the table is made, we could get a large group of users that each take one enemy or something and calculate it, but either way we can't start the table with HP. Unless there is a better way-say, hacking the game and viewing the HP, we could do that much easier, but I can't do that and I don't know if anyone can. If users want it, we can do it, but it will be hard. --Triple D is awesome 19:19, 15 August 2011 (CDT)
It's actually not nearly as complicated as you're making it; touching an opponent while "guarding" is the weakest attack in the game, causing one point of damage for each hit; it's what I mainly used to find out the HP values for Kirby Super Star (for Mid-Bosses, I also spat as many stars at them as possible without knocking them out; each one does 52 points of damage). It does indeed take a while, though, and some enemies make it rather difficult. "Hacking" the game is not something I encourage, though, as it slides into the realms of illegality.--Vellidragon 20:33, 15 August 2011 (CDT)
Ha, once again my memory serves me incorrectly. Very well, I can do it, as I recently found out I'll have easy access to Wikirby and my DS for the next two weeks. In other news, I got all the sprites in serperate images much fasster than I anticipated, so I'm making them all transparent today and they should be ready soon. --Triple D is awesome 09:10, 16 August 2011 (CDT)

Expansion Almost Done![edit]

Done all enemies! I'll make a table about the mid-bosses next. --Triple D is awesome 18:17, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

That's looking pretty good so far, as far as I can tell without having played the game. Your search keys were broken, though; Template:Key is used to make columns with unsortable elements sort properly, but in order for that to work, individual types of elements need a different key (1 for "yes" and 3 for "no" in this case). You had several "no"s with {{key|1}} and some "yes"s with {{key|3}} in there, messing up the sorting. These things don't take long for me to fix, but still, keep this in mind when making more tables :3 --Vellidragon 18:33, 19 August 2011 (CDT)

Done![edit]

Added mid-bosses! And yes, this time I used CTRL+F and fixed all the {{key|1}}{{n}} and {{key|3}}{{y}}! :D --Triple D is awesome 10:47, 20 August 2011 (CDT)

Animated Abilities[edit]

While these are an original idea, I find animated images to be incredibly distracting when I'm trying to read something, and I also don't believe they fall under fair use anymore as they use an abundance of copyrighted images (every individual frame), more than needed to illustrate the abilities' appearance. Would like to know what others have to say on this, though.--Vellidragon 17:22, 21 September 2011 (CDT)

Just bringing this up again as nobody replied so far. Apart from still being distracting as ever, I really don't think these can be justified as fair use. I could "upload a new version" of the images which only has a single frame so they wouldn't need to be replaced here.--Vellidragon 11:51, 3 January 2012 (CST)
I haven't really noticed them before, but now when I look at it, it is rather distracting (especially as some of them are animated/some of it are not, which bugs me because it's inconsistent), especially the normal Kirby one. I would also presume that it may lag up slower connections and waste server space, so I am in favour of this. T.c.w7468 19:36, 3 January 2012 (CST)
Well, after some months, I came here, and this is done. I also removed the colored text, if you don't mind, because it make the text mighty hard to read. Aphelocomaマリオ 20:49, 4 July 2012 (CDT)

Antagonists[edit]

The current antagonists' table, which uses Y/N design, is sometimes hard to read in my opinion - if one wants to check where an enemy appears and doesn't remember the order of Sub-Games, they will need to scroll up to the top (especially applies to enemies last alphabetically). Plus, the bosses' table gives the page a horizontal scroll bar on my monitor. I made a draft redesigning it. Thoughts on it? Superbound (talk) 15:47, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

Your draft makes the table way too vertical, which I dislike. I actually really like the current design and I don't think it needs to be changed personally. I do understand the issue of having to scroll up to remember which column represents each game, but I would rather have it like it is right now if that is the only issue. - Gigi (talkedits) 21:34, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
I agree with Gigi. I think that Superbound's draft, while fixing the scrolling up problem, it comes with more downsides than upsides, as I find it harder to "digest" than the one that is right now, specially thanks to the bigger vertical spacing. Probably that could be "fixed" if in the characters that appear in every game like Burning Leo, it is listed as "All" instead of listing each separate sub-game. Still, if I were to choose one, I will go with the current one. Though in that case the scrolling problem would be still there, so maybe it could be fixed if each game row is colored? -Kirbeat (talk) 04:38, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
I feel like it's fine as is. We could try and help the scrolling issue by repeating the headers (although this would probably break sorting so maybe not), and Kirbeat's suggestion of coloring the columns sounds like a good idea. ---PinkYoshiFan 09:31, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
Hmm, the colors idea sounds interesting, though could you give more details about it? I'd like to know your vision on it.
I think mid-headers would look ugly, but perhaps a single additional one at the bottom might be OK. Superbound (talk) 19:38, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
Could you make "Description" column take less width and give it to "Appears in"? That would save a lot vertical space. ⁠–⁠Vipz (talk · edits) 19:23, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

Could we help the scrolling issues by splitting the table into enemies that provide copy abilities and enemies that don't? That combined with bottom headers could help fix the scrolling issues with the current design. As for Vipz's idea, we could theoretically use width=, but I'm not sure how well that would translate across displays. ---PinkYoshiFan 21:48, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

I have modified the table to use width, how does it look now? I'll try to split the table by ability provided later. Superbound (talk) 15:08, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
Yeah, it looks better. ---PinkYoshiFan 00:27, 7 January 2022 (UTC)
Bump ---PinkYoshiFan 12:42, 23 January 2022 (UTC)
Bump 2 ---PinkYoshiFan 19:05, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
Having a look at it, I'm actually not sure if it's super necessary to even have these game appearance markers on the main game page, since each enemy has a location table on its own page, and we don't really need specialized info like that on a general game page. It might actually be better to just nix the main game appearances altogether to improve readability. --Samwell (talk) 16:34, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
I hadn't considered that. I think that would probably work better. ---PinkYoshiFan 19:41, 11 February 2022 (UTC)
I've gone ahead and reformatted all the tables. Feels better already. --Samwell (talk) 22:25, 12 February 2022 (UTC)