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WiKirby talk:Localization policy

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American/British English differences hidden behind Template:UserLang[edit]

As of now as I'm writing this, the Kracko articles has all of it's pronouns changed with {{UserLang}} to show up as "it" for British English and "he" for everyone else. My problem with this, is that it adds a lot of coding for a page and it would be tedious to change every instance of Kracko being mentioned to UserLang. Neither this policy specifies clearly ("[...] When discussing an article whose details are different depending on region, the American English localization should be used first and foremost. For the sake of full information (and often interesting trivia), regional differences in canon should be mentioned in appropriate articles using a "Regional differences" section.[...]") nor language policy ("WiKirby is an English-language wiki. More specifically, it uses American English. As such, articles should be written only in English (barring quotes in other languages, more on that below) and American English spelling and American-localized names should take priority. If the editor wishes, there are a number of personal settings templates which can be used to spell words and names differently to the reader depending on the region, but these alternate spellings should not be used to replace American English spelling.") whatever to do with British and American differences in localizations that aren't just spelling stuff. I personally prefer to still keep it to only spellings and game names per the reasons said by me above, however since Owen disagrees with me I'd like to have a discussion.

(Also sorry for this wall of text.) Superbound (talk) 16:18, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

For the wall of text thing; apology accepted.
My case is that we've been using the UserLang template a lot more often lately and that using it for more than just game titles, character and/or stage names would just be a natural extension of using the UserLang template. From what I can gather, originally such template was used for userpages and the like (don't quote me on that, I'm still not entirely sure about its origins myself) but we've been using it more often for actual article information like stages, game titles and characters that might have different English names between the American and European/Australian versions. Following in the footsteps of examples like Old Odyssey - Stage 6, I pretty much go to work and add the British terminology using said template just in case some of our users happen to be from Europe and/or Australia, and/or if a user or two, like myself, has it set to the British spelling (to make adding such things easier). Now as far as I can tell, the policy specifically states to use American English wording over anything else...yet we have a template that can provide British English wording over anything else, as long as the template is used on the article and it's even set up so that the default is the American spelling unless the preferences setting is changed to that of the British spelling. Confusing? Most likely for the naïve individual. I'm personally thinking myself that the localization policy could be updated in regards to the British localization as well and mention that in such cases where certain game elements have different names and/or genders between English releases that the UserLang template could be used for stuff like that. Just a hunch. – Owencrazyboy17 (talk) 17:02, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
So, having a look at the changes made to the Kracko page, I take an issue, not regarding whether or not the UserLang template should be used to differentiate gender between regions, but to the specific change regarding changing the pronouns in the Triple Deluxe section only, and not across the whole article, as might be expected. If it can be shown that Kracko is gender-neutral a majority of the time (and particularly in more recent games) in Europe, then I don't really have an issue with differentiating that gender using the UserLang template across the whole article, as long as the user in question is willing to do all that work to add those templates. On the other hand, I think it's inappropriate to refer to Kracko as an it exclusively in Triple Deluxe just because "it" pronouns were used in that specific game, even if nowhere else. The genders of entities shouldn't change between games unless it's an actual retcon provided by HAL themselves, and not just a likely error in translation/localization for one specific game. --Samwell (talk) 23:47, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
Out of the most recent games in the series (2014-onward), Kracko is referred to with gender-neutral pronouns in the British version of Triple Deluxe (as is the hologram in both English localizations of Planet Robobot) and is referred to with male pronouns in the American version of Triple Deluxe and the English version of Fighters Deluxe and Star Allies. There's no pronouns used in the Kirby Clash games, Kirby's Blowout Blast and Kirby Battle Royale. Kirby's Epic Yarn (and by extension, Extra Epic Yarn) does not use pronouns for Kracko, but does for Space Kracko. Not too sure about the older games in the series... – Owencrazyboy17 (talk) 00:12, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
Sounds to me like Kracko is male or gender-unmentioned in most recent games then. I think it's safe to have him be male until something comes up that clearly demonstrates otherwise. As for the general principle, I think it's fine to differentiate genders between regions in an article as long as what I specified above (the different gender is used in a majority of games, and particularly the most recent ones) holds true. --Samwell (talk) 00:17, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
All right then. Case closed! – Owencrazyboy17 (talk) 00:38, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Well then can the policy be updated to reflect whatever was decided then? Superbound (talk) 12:08, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

I wanted to open this for discussion because I personally don't believe we should use language templates so often in an article if there is such a minor difference such American English using a pronoun and European English using another. I often talk to European Kirby fans and even directly asked them once regarding these differences, and most are used to the way the American localization works, be it for game names, or minor differences like that. While I'm not against using language templates to change between the game names and some minor differences in words spellings, or using tabs to say list two different trophy descriptions in Smash Bros. games, I feel that everything else would be overkill. We would do too much work and make the text a pain to edit when it wouldn't even exactly benefit those we want to benefit.
So, for me, I would make note to only use language templates for game names and spelling differences. If game descriptions vary between the American and European versions, add them in articles too with some use of tabs. Anything else should just be noted in the article such as in a trivia section. - Gigi (talkedits) 12:20, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
Planned on responding to Owen's arguments after the cooldown has passed, but since Gigi reopened the discussion I might as well say that I agree with what she said. There is currently weird use of lang template on Kirby's Avalanche page in Trivia that changes the release year, and that doesn't seem needed imo. Superbound (talk) 12:51, 27 April 2021 (UTC)