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#Per the reasons stated in its favor. I've been in this fandom for over a decade now, and I've yet to see anyone think KSS was referring to ''Squeak Squad'' or ''Star Stacker''. Much like every time someone has said KA they were referring to ''Adventure'' and not ''Avalanche''. So if we are going to use KA to refer to ''Adventure'', I don't see why KSS shouldn't be used to refer to ''Super Star''. {{User:Gigi/sig}} 20:33, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
#Per the reasons stated in its favor. I've been in this fandom for over a decade now, and I've yet to see anyone think KSS was referring to ''Squeak Squad'' or ''Star Stacker''. Much like every time someone has said KA they were referring to ''Adventure'' and not ''Avalanche''. So if we are going to use KA to refer to ''Adventure'', I don't see why KSS shouldn't be used to refer to ''Super Star''. {{User:Gigi/sig}} 20:33, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
#Samwell made some great points, but what really tips things for me is the symmetry, in two ways. Firstly, SqSq has a nice visual effect that I enjoy, whereas KSuS feels lopsided. Secondly, and what I see to be the most important part, KSS mirrors with KSSU. While I understand that KSSU has no ambiguity and therefore would not need to be abbreviated as KSuSU (which, ironically, looks better than KSuS by my first point), the fact that the two acronyms would not match feels unnecessarily disparate to me. KSS and KSSU are a match set, and the potential ambiguity is quickly rectified by any length of time on this website and in the community. [[User:LeoUnlimited|LeoUnlimited]] ([[User talk:LeoUnlimited|talk]]) 20:44, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
#Samwell made some great points, but what really tips things for me is the symmetry, in two ways. Firstly, SqSq has a nice visual effect that I enjoy, whereas KSuS feels lopsided. Secondly, and what I see to be the most important part, KSS mirrors with KSSU. While I understand that KSSU has no ambiguity and therefore would not need to be abbreviated as KSuSU (which, ironically, looks better than KSuS by my first point), the fact that the two acronyms would not match feels unnecessarily disparate to me. KSS and KSSU are a match set, and the potential ambiguity is quickly rectified by any length of time on this website and in the community. [[User:LeoUnlimited|LeoUnlimited]] ([[User talk:LeoUnlimited|talk]]) 20:44, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
#Agreed for KSS per the listed reasons; it's the most common abbreviation for it, it matches with "KSSU", and the other two have different abbreviations that are easier to distinguish. Another part is that "ksus" could be difficult to distinguish from "kssu" if typed in lowercase, which I think would be a bigger problem considering how closely tied the two games are. As mentioned, if we're using "KA" exclusively for ''Adventure'', "KSS" is fine to use for ''Super Star''. [[User:StrawberryChan|StrawberryChan]] ([[User talk:StrawberryChan|talk]]) 21:18, 15 January 2021 (UTC)


====Neutral Comments====
====Neutral Comments====

Revision as of 21:18, 15 January 2021

The Great Debate: KSS vs KSuS (January 15, 2021 - January 22, 2021)

We at the staff have been going to town reforming WiKirby:Abbreviations to standardize one abbreviation per game, and to cut out unnecessary abbreviations. The purpose of this policy page is to standardize file name patterns and make them easier to find and link to. But we hit one point of strong contention within the staff: should we ditch KSuS and assign KSS to Super Star? It's a very split issue and we agreed to see the community's thoughts. Below are some text walls making a case for each side, written by Samwell (Talk) as well as yours truly.

YoshiFlutterJump's case (Use KSuS)

I think we should use KSuS to refer to Kirby Super Star in filenames. The alternative, KSS, is an ambiguous abbreviation that could be used for Super Star, Squeak Squad, and Star Stacker. Star Stacker is fairly obscure and therefore not a real issue, but Squeak Squad is, like Super Star, a main series Kirby game and a fairly popular one at that. The opposition claims that most people use KSS to refer to Super Star, but in my experience, people have used KSS for both. Just look at our own boxart filenames for the two--two completely different games, but a glance at the filenames might suggest that they represent the same thing. It's rather confusing and can easily be avoided by using KSuS.

The opposition also claims that KSS is more likely to be used by unsuspecting newcomers...and I don't deny that. But they are not only more likely to use it for Super Star--they are also more likely to use it for Squeak Squad. As I said before, both are fairly popular games, and you can just look at the box art filenames I linked to tell you that this is very true for both games. Additionally, it is much easier to find and correct filenames that use KSS when no game is assigned by policy to use that abbreviation. Using KSS to refer to Super Star makes it more difficult to find and correct the Squeak Squad files, since they're buried among the Super Star files, and the same goes if we give KSS to Squeak Squad. KSS may well be more commonly used for Super Star, but I don't think it is to an extent that would outweigh the benefits of avoiding use of KSS altogether.

I rest my case.

Samwell's case (Use KSS)

Arguments for using KSS instead of KSuS for Super Star:

  • KSS is almost universally recognized as the abbreviation for Super Star in the wider Kirby fan community.
  • KSS is cleaner than KSuS and does not need any lowercase letters to distinguish.
  • KSS matches with KSSU for Kirby Super Star Ultra which is already widely used in the wiki.
  • Any file confusion can be rectified with name changes, and use of KSS to refer to Squeak Squad or Star Stacker will still happen regardless of what abbreviation we use.
  • Kirby Super Star is a far more important game to the Kirby series than Squeak Squad, so the abbreviation priority should reflect that.

Arguments against using KSS:

  • KSS is ambiguous, could refer to Super Star, Squeak Squad, or Star Stacker.
  • It will be easier to spot and correct naming errors involving KSS if none of the games use it.
  • All Kirby games are special, and none should be considered more or less important than the other.

Voting

So, which abbreviation should we use to refer to Kirby Super Star in filenames? Vote below! (And if you have any ideas for another abbreviation, post them below too!) After we have come to a decision on this, the full tentative list will be posted on WiKirby:Proposals for formal voting. --YFJ (talk · edits) 20:28, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Use KSuS

  1. Well, I obviously support this option--otherwise I wouldn't have written that long text wall. --YFJ (talk · edits) 20:28, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
  2. Shared abbreviations are only OK if one game is a lot more important than the others. Super Star and Squeak Squad is not that. ---PinkYoshiFan 20:29, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Use KSS

  1. Per my own text wall, I support this option. Let the games begin. --Samwell (talk) 20:28, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
  2. Per the reasons stated in its favor. I've been in this fandom for over a decade now, and I've yet to see anyone think KSS was referring to Squeak Squad or Star Stacker. Much like every time someone has said KA they were referring to Adventure and not Avalanche. So if we are going to use KA to refer to Adventure, I don't see why KSS shouldn't be used to refer to Super Star. - Gigi (talkedits) 20:33, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
  3. Samwell made some great points, but what really tips things for me is the symmetry, in two ways. Firstly, SqSq has a nice visual effect that I enjoy, whereas KSuS feels lopsided. Secondly, and what I see to be the most important part, KSS mirrors with KSSU. While I understand that KSSU has no ambiguity and therefore would not need to be abbreviated as KSuSU (which, ironically, looks better than KSuS by my first point), the fact that the two acronyms would not match feels unnecessarily disparate to me. KSS and KSSU are a match set, and the potential ambiguity is quickly rectified by any length of time on this website and in the community. LeoUnlimited (talk) 20:44, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
  4. Agreed for KSS per the listed reasons; it's the most common abbreviation for it, it matches with "KSSU", and the other two have different abbreviations that are easier to distinguish. Another part is that "ksus" could be difficult to distinguish from "kssu" if typed in lowercase, which I think would be a bigger problem considering how closely tied the two games are. As mentioned, if we're using "KA" exclusively for Adventure, "KSS" is fine to use for Super Star. StrawberryChan (talk) 21:18, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Neutral Comments

Discussion

While we're having this discussion, I figured I might as well post the tentative list of abbreviations we've decided on. If anyone here has feedback, please share!

Kirby's Dream Land - KDL
Kirby's Adventure - KA
Kirby's Pinball Land - KPL
Kirby's Dream Course - KDC
Kirby's Dream Land 2 - KDL2
Kirby's Avalanche - KAv
Kirby's Block Ball - KBBa
Kirby Super Star - KSuS OR KSS
Kirby's Star Stacker - KSSGB
Kirby's Dream Land 3 - KDL3
Kirby's Star Stacker (SNES) - KSSS
Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards - K64
Kirby Tilt 'n' Tumble - KTnT
Kirby: Nightmare in Dream Land - KNiDL
Kirby Air Ride - KAR
Kirby & The Amazing Mirror - KaTAM
Kirby: Canvas Curse - KCC
Kirby: Squeak Squad - KSqS
Kirby Super Star Ultra - KSSU
Kirby's Epic Yarn - KEY
Kirby Mass Attack - KMA
Kirby's Return to Dream Land - KRtDL
Kirby's Dream Collection Special Edition - KDCSE
Kirby: Triple Deluxe - KTD
Kirby Fighters Deluxe - KFD
Dedede's Drum Dash Deluxe - DDDD
Kirby and the Rainbow Curse - KatRC
Kirby: Planet Robobot - KPR
Team Kirby Clash Deluxe - TKCD
Kirby's Blowout Blast - KBBl
Kirby Battle Royale - KBR
Kirby Star Allies - KSA
Kirby's Extra Epic Yarn - KEEY
Super Kirby Clash - SKC
Kirby Fighters 2 - KF2

Super Smash Bros. games
Super Smash Bros. - SSB64
Super Smash Bros. Melee - SSBM
Super Smash Bros. Brawl - SSBB
Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U - SSB4
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - SSBU
--YFJ (talk · edits) 21:12, 15 January 2021 (UTC)