Talk:Butterfly
Regarding the subject of this article
So, in past revisions of this page, there seemed to be a unsettlement about what this article covers, as it treated one of the butterflies in Green Greens' intro as a special one without specifying anything nor with any proof, almost seeing like a joke article a la Green Greens - Pixel 13, at least to me. Since a more recent revision it is more clear that this article seeks to cover "the red-and-orange butterfly that is seen across games since KRtDL and have shown to be capable of transforming into Morpho Knight", but sincerely I have various problems with that.
First, unless some developer said something in some interview which I'm not aware about and that isn't linked in this page, literally nothing says that every single red-and-orange butterfly seen are the same ones. For instance, in the "Restored to Life" cut-scene of KPR three red-and-orange butterflies can be seen, instead of just the only one that is currently covered in the page. The one that is on Kirby's head flies off to where the remains of Dedede's Castle are, and then flies from there too. Afterwards two more butterflies get close to where Dedede and a Waddle Dee popped out, remaining there for a while; you can see the whole scene animated here. In this scene, two butterflies colored exactly like the one on Kirby's head appeared on screen at the same time, confirming that this is at least an species, not just one specific character.
The only butterfly that really has a distinction and that can be called a character is Morpho Knight. But that is other thing, this page covers Morpho's butterfly form like if it was another character, while there is evidence of the contrary. Morpho Knight EX's Japanese pause screen description first calls it "A butterfly of paradise [...]" and then says "After absorbing the white knight, it has finally made his power its own". Like, it doesn't say that "this is a butterfly of paradise formed by absorbing the white knight". It instead says that like if Morpho already existed before absorbing Galacta Knight, and in that moment Morpho is in a butterfly form. More explicitly, KatFL's Japanese figure description of it says "The lone butterfly who casts judgment on final battles was lured to the forgotten, extinct land. There, it feasted upon the most powerful soul it could find, and was reborn as a crimson knight.". It directly treats the butterfly that absorbed that boss as Morpho. In short, instead of saying something like "it was a butterfly that then transformed into Morpho Knight" it says "Morpho Knight had the form of a butterfly, which then transformed into a knight". So, that butterfly that absorbs Galacta Knight and that boss isn't a different character from Morpho Knight, but instead it is Morpho Knight, just in another less powerful form, something that I compare to the two forms of Nightmare and Dark Matter, which are covered in the same page instead of being split because those are two forms of the same character, and not two different characters.
So, by all of that: If this page aims to cover the butterfly form of Morpho Knight, it is doing it wrong because of two things: One, said butterfly form should be covered in the Morpho Knight page, as those two are simply the same character, leaving the whole existence of the "Butterfly" page redundant. And two, again, nothing at all says that the butterflies seen in KRtDL, KTD and KPR are the same one as Morpho, because as KPR showed, there are at the very least two identical looking butterflies. It could easily be that the butterfly seen in KRtDL, the one on KTD and the three of KPR are simply five different but lookalike butterflies, with Morpho being a sixth one. Maybe even the one at the intro of KSA and on "A Farewell to Kirby" are other seventh and eighth ones. We just don't know. The only one that is confirmed to appear two times is Morpho Knight, one time in the Extra Modes of KSA and across KatFL.
If you ask me, the best way to treat this whole topic would be to merge all of the Morpho's butterfly form info in the Morpho Knight article for what I said, they are two forms of the same character, and to also keep this page but while shifting its topic to simply butterflies in general, red-and-orange colored or not, including the now-deleted ones that appear in Green Greens' intro, just because they are a kinda consistent regular thing across the Kirby series, and I think that they are the only consistent fauna displayed in the series that aren't a proper enemy, though that could probably clash a bit with Flutter. If not, then covering the red-and-orange colored butterflies as a species seems good to me, nothing Morpho Knight as an individual among them. Do you agree that the topic of this page is a bit inconsistent or you disagree? I just want to see people's opinion on the topic with the things that I brought up here. -Kirbeat (talk) 05:00, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
- Well, Flutter is a butterfly, so I feel like making this an article on the species as a whole could work (using {{Main}} with Flutter and Morpho Knight) without it clashing, especially since, as mentioned, they are pretty much the only recurring animals that aren't enemies (or protagonists in the case of Kirby's species). ---PinkYoshiFan 18:38, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
- Yeah, if we move this article's content to Morpho's article under a "butterfly" section and then make this a disambig for Morpho and Flutter, I'd be fine with that. I'm not sure if it'd be noteworthy to cover the smaller appearances of butterflies, which is why I overhauled this article to begin with. StarPunch (talk) 20:04, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
Bump 2 ---PinkYoshiFan 15:36, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
- Apparently no one disagrees about moving Morpho Knight's butterfly form info to the Morpho Knight article, so I will just go and do that while also kinda rewriting this article to treat the red and orange butterflies as an species, instead of as one particlar character (because again, at the very least 2 of them were seen at the same time) and so. From there we could see if we leave the article like that or treat it differently, but keeping Morpho Knight out of it at the end. -Zolerian (talk | contribs) 23:37, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
- So, I did the above thing. Kind-off. I leaved the paragraphs and images referring to Morpho Knight in its butterfly form because those are still instances of this butterfly species. I can completely see if those are completely taken out, but I also leaved them so that it could be seen how the article goes while referring to the butterflies in general while also covering butterfly Morpho Knight, and so we can now see if it works better like that, or if it works better without the butterfly Morpho Knight coverage. To go step by step.
- So so, now that the butterflies are treated as a general species with Morpho Knight being one of them, I ask you: Do we leave the article as-is with it covering the butterfly Morpho Knight appearances in text and images? Do we leave it as it is but while removing butterfly Morpho Knight, thus, covering only the red and orange butterflies that aren't confirmed to be Morpho Knight? Do we amplify the article to cover every instance of butterfly in the series, thus by dedicating more in-depth text to the ones in the Green Greens intro and to Flutter, etc? Or do we just collapse the article into a disambiguation for Flutter and Morpho Knight and that's it, which would end up erasing coverage of the red and orange butterflies that aren't confirmed to be Morpho Knight? Or or also if you have any other idea :P
- To me, I would prefer keeping the page up to give coverage to those red and orange butterflies that aren't confirmed to be Morpho, because they are just some fauna that appear quite constantly in the series, which is notable for me. I don't have much of a preference about if to cover other butterflies or not, so you'll tell me what you think is better here. -Zolerian (talk | contribs) 03:49, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
