Talk:Kirby

References

For some reason, I can only see the References in this article when I'm logged in; otherwise, there is just a large, empty section at the bottom. Does anyone else have this problem, or any idea what may be causing it?--Vellidragon 19:03, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I have this problem too. I don't think it's the references themselve; when I was logged off, I could see those in Smash Ride just fine. Turtwig A (talk | contribs) 19:20, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Re-inserting subst:Ref didn't fix it... Is it anything to do with the fact the page's semi-protected? Moydow 20:48, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

It is likely more technical than editing the page. To me, it brings up the question; why can logged-in users see the references, whereas logged-out users cannot? Unless a user group right prevents anons from seeing references on protected pages (which is highly unlikely, since they can on Wikipedia). I'm going to log out, and go back to my sandbox for a while. Moydow 00:15, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, all my attempts to fix it failed. :( But I did discover the root of the problem; it appears the gallery 'disagrees' with the references, causing them to disappear when a user is logged out. Moydow 00:57, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

This sounds familiar, I think an issue in the MediaWiki namespace javascript is to blame.Axiomist (talk) 04:50, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Appearances

I'm wondering how information from different types of media will be organized. Will information from written works and TVs be put with the games or in a separate section? I want to cover some of the anime and manga information Kirby has appeared in, but I'm not sure where it needs to go. Aphelocomaマリオ 18:42, 30 October 2012 (CDT)

The Quality Standards contain a basic layout that includes sections for those things, for the sake of standardising them. The organisation within those sections I'm not fully sure about yet. Clean's Anime section has sub-sections for individual episodes, but I believe that should only be done for subjects that appear in a manageable number of those. Kirby is in every episode, so to avoid having 100+ sub-sections, his role in the series should probably be summarised & key facts/events should be noted.--Vellidragon 11:40, 31 October 2012 (CDT)

Fix it

There are stuff like "magolor" and "noob" in this. KirbyFunny2014 (talk) 19:48, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Sprites

The sprite it says is used for Kirby's dreamland isn't the same sprite as the one used in Kirby's dreamland 2. It looks exactly like the one used in pinball but without the blush. --triwizchamp05

I suppose there are a few minor differences. Are you up for updating the table? --Fubaka (talk) 15:08, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

Yes, I have the image of the sprite ready too Triwizchamp05 (talk) 17:35, 11 October 2019 (UTC)

Gender

while Kirby is thoguht of as being male in Amarica, in Japan, he is known for being Gender Neutral —Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.93.54.201 (talk • contribs) . Please always sign your comments by typing ~~~~!

To answer you question WiKirby always uses American English version over others, altrought other are mentioned later in the article. Maybe in Names in other languages section.

Also, please don't edit other users comments Superbound (talk) 06:52, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

putting the year next to debut

May I at least put the year next to the name of the first and latest appearance? Since this is a technique most wikis use. Rowbro

I'd see no harm in it, but that would have to be done with all the pages involving these parameters. Also, you can more easily sign your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~) at the end of your posts. --Samwell (talk) 01:05, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the answer, I'll make sure to do that with all the pages with parameters. I would be perfectly glad with you helping me.Rowbro (talk) 03:39, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

We can start doing that going forward, but I personally am busy with other matters on the wiki. If you want to enlist more people to help, you should get on the Discord server and ask there. That would be the best way. --Samwell (talk) 04:01, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

famous and farmiliar

can I replace "most famous and familiar" with "major", It would be a lot more simple and understandableRowbro (talk) 22:40, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

There's not really much need. The wording gets the point across as-is. -- Jellytost♡ (talk) 22:46, 28 May 2021 (UTC)

Soooo...

You know how every Extra Game is considered non-canon save for Heroes In Another Dimension, due to it being a continuation of the main story of Kirby Star Allies?

It's... an odd question, yes, but it does make me wonder if an additional paragraph should be added to the section detailing the events of Star Allies that mentions Kirby's involvement there. Not saying that you absolutely HAVE to, but the option's always there. 141.101.98.127 20:45, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

Split characteristics into its own page

I'd be fine with a split; perhaps a page titled "Kirby's anatomy" to match Kirby's voice, rather than a subpage? StarPunch (talk) 03:57, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Well, since it would also include the personality section, I think "Kirby's characteristics" might be better, but I suppose if in the future those two subjects need to be split themselves, then we can do that. :P --Samwell (talk) 03:58, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

That'd also work! LOL StarPunch (talk) 04:02, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

It's a good idea to do it sooner rather than later. Take inspiration from Bowser's article from Super Mario Wiki. Look how massive the "General information" about him is! Support for splitting. ⁠–⁠Wiz (talk · edits) 11:54, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Arcana

So apparently whether or not to include Arcana as Kirby's first appearance in the infobox is controversial enough for it to have been reverted twice, which...confuses me to say the least, and since I feel strongly enough about this to want to convince people I took to the talk page to complain about it.
Here's my rebuttals to the arguments against including Arcana:

• "It's not notable enough for the infobox"/"It's only a minor cameo" - Are there actually any rules about what appearances are "too minor" for an infobox mention? If there are, they seem to be pretty lenient - if a cameo as a stone or statue or sticker or portrait or keychain or mask or costume or confectionery is sufficient, I don't see why a brief appearance in the flesh isn't.
• "The game only came out a month before Kirby's Dream Land" - While it's true that Kirby wasn't invented to be a background character in Arcana, the infobox isn't for the first planned appearance, it's for the first actual appearance, otherwise Dedede Robo's first appearance would be the cancelled GameCube game. And if the argument here is that Arcana's inclusion would be somehow misleading, I'd say the opposite - listing a character's second appearance as the first appearance is the more misleading decision here, and I also don't plan on completely erasing Kirby's Dream Land from the infobox but rather listing both it and Arcana.
• "The appearance is noted later in the page anyway" - This is the one that confuses me the most because it could be applied to literally every character, item, etc. on the wiki. If listing Arcana in the infobox is redundant, then why isn't it redundant to list Kirby's Dream Land, or any other game for that matter? Wouldn't this make it redundant to even have an infobox at all?

End of rant (further response rants welcome). Hewer (talk · contributions) 15:59, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

I agree with all your points, the only "downside" is how weird it would be for Kirby, the main character of his series, to have his first appearance be marked as outside in the infobox; but since that's the case anyway I think it makes sense to have the page the way you edited it. ShadowKirby (t/c) a.k.a. your new overlord ShadowMagolor 16:05, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Just to clarify, like I told you in the edit revision, you shouldn't have even added it a second time per the dispute policy. Judging from your message it appears you didn't read that policy, so I highly recommend you to do so. This is why this was reverted twice, because the second one was against the dispute policy.

Anyway, since you are specifically arguing against my own arguments let me argue back:

I think the biggest thing you are ignoring is that Arcana isn't a Kirby game. Would you say Roy (from Fire Emblem) first game appearance be Smash Bros. Melee for you? Because it is misleading indeed to claim that this character was first in a game that referenced his actual first appearance. The whole point is, Kirby wasn't created for Arcana, he was created for Kirby's Dream Land and Arcana just so happened to release before Kirby's Dream Land (hence why I said "The game only came out a month before Kirby's Dream Land"). You probably know that Kirby's Dream Land was actually delayed because they had the game done, but then they had to rebrand it. It just so happened.

"It's not notable enough for the infobox"/"It's only a minor cameo" is again a fact. Your comparison with characters like Rick doesn't make sense when Kirby in his own series has literally only once appeared as a cameo. So yeah, it's not notable enough when Kirby is literally the main character of his own series.

I only said "The appearance is noted later in the page anyway" because, once again, this is a fact, and I am just saying that I'm not against mentioning this in the page. However, like I said, I still think it's misleading to list the first appearance of the literal main character of the series in a cameo where, quite frankly, is so minor. He is literally just in a frame of the intro and twice in fact. We don't even have an official confirmation that this is Kirby to begin with as far as I know, so yet another point for this being misleading. And speaking of official confirmation, I don't think this cameo was ever even acknowledged by HAL, so if the own creators of Kirby don't consider it his first appearance, why would we?

Related to this, someone once tried to add that Bandana Waddle Dee's first appearance was Kirby's Toy Box, which I also reverted. For cases like this, I feel that trying to list stuff like this for the sake of it being true in a way is just obnoxious. We gain literally nothing by putting in the infobox that Kirby had a extremely minor cameo in an obscure game that released only a month before his actual debut appearance. I just... don't get at all why this needs to be listed, and why you feel so strongly about it. - Gigi (talk • edits) 16:39, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Afaik, we also don't list games that aren't Kirby or Smash Bros. in the infoboxes (regardless if the appearance is first, last, or in the middle). And if that's not the standard, I think it should. Superbound (talk) 16:44, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, you have a point, and I'm pretty sure you are correct. - Gigi (talk • edits) 16:49, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Firstly, I have read the dispute policy, and it told me to "take it to the appropriate discussion page", hence why I commented here. I realise I shouldn't have added it a second time without discussing though, apologies for that.

Kirby not being made for Arcana is something I already addressed in the original comment, so I'm confused why you're bringing that up. To quote what I said above: "While it's true that Kirby wasn't invented to be a background character in Arcana, the infobox isn't for the first planned appearance, it's for the first actual appearance, otherwise Dedede Robo's first appearance would be the cancelled GameCube game." Your Roy comparison is from a completely different franchise and thus not very relevant, but to answer your question, yes I would consider Melee his first appearance, because that's the truth - it just so happened. And for it being "misleading", I will again quote what I said above: "I'd say the opposite - listing a character's second appearance as the first appearance is the more misleading decision here, and I also don't plan on completely erasing Kirby's Dream Land from the infobox but rather listing both it and Arcana."

Your repetition that what you said is factual is irrelevant. At no point did I argue that Kirby's appearance in Arcana isn't a cameo, or that the appearance wasn't mentioned on the page - I was arguing that these facts shouldn't mean we exclude it from the infobox. You also bring up Kirby's status as the main character of the series as though that has any relevance at all to this situation - I would still be arguing this if, say, Waddle Dee had appeared instead of Kirby, and I genuinely am unsure what you're trying to get at there. At worst, it kind of comes across as bias.

I doubt that the reference to Kirby was unintentional, seeing as the two games were both made by HAL and released a month apart, and it's not like two Kirbys is all that odd seeing as multiple Kirbys are seen a few times in Kirby's Dream Land (victory dances and one of the level intros, "Multiple Kirbys are constantly showing up" as Sakurai puts it). But if you're going to insist that this actually isn't an appearance of Kirby at all, we'd have to remove the coverage of it that the wiki already has.

The reason I feel strongly about this is because claiming his first appearance was Kirby's Dream Land as we currently (sometimes) do is frankly incorrect information, which I would rather not have on the wiki. I disagree that correcting the misinformation is gaining nothing - I'm sure many people would be interested to find out that Kirby actually appeared in an obscure cameo a month before the first game in his series.

And @Superbound: Why do you think that should be the standard? We do note crossover appearances on the wiki, so why should infoboxes used for the express purpose of documenting appearances be an exception? Hewer (talk · contributions) 17:45, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

It's pretty clear that we have different definitions of "first actual appearance". In particular, I'm confused why you are comparing Arcana to a cancelled Kirby game (which wouldn't change a thing to me anyway, as I don't think Dedede Robo's first appearance is Kirby GCN as that's a cancelled game and we aren't talking about cancelled games). Once again, to repeat myself, "I think the biggest thing you are ignoring is that Arcana isn't a Kirby game." We are a wiki about the Kirby series, not about Arcana or I guess HAL in general. This is why we do not list Kirby games other than Smash (which is an odd case) in infoboxes. If we did... I do not even want to image how big some infoboxes would become.

We keep going in circles: you consider Kirby's cameo in Arcana big enough to be in the infobox, and I do not. This is subjective and there is no wrong or right here. What there is wrong and right here are, once again like I mentioned, facts of both how the wiki handles stuff, and also how HAL treats them. Like Superbound said and I repeated already, we do not put non-Kirby games other than Smash in infoboxes, because this is a wiki about the Kirby series. Finally, you addressed everything I said but the most important point: "And speaking of official confirmation, I don't think this cameo was ever even acknowledged by HAL, so if the own creators of Kirby don't consider it his first appearance, why would we?" Since the relevance of Kirby's cameo in Arcana is subjective, we should instead see how the developers treat it. And once again, as far as I'm aware, the developers of HAL treat Kirby's first proper appearance as Kirby's Dream Land. A quick example I can think of is this Miiverse post that says "You were born in 1992, so that makes you…23 years old!" "Now, of course, I'm not talking about when Kirby was actually born. But it is 23 years since the first Kirby game was released." but most importantly "If the release date of a character's first game is that character's birthday" and, well, this post is celebrating the release date of Kirby's Dream Land, not of Arcana.

So, I will ask again: "if the own creators of Kirby don't consider it his first appearance, why would we?" - Gigi (talk • edits) 18:44, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Here is another example: "The adorable pink hero #Kirby made his debut in Kirby's Dream Land on Game Boy in Japan 30 years ago today!" - Gigi (talk • edits) 19:01, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

My definition of "first actual appearance" is "the first released game in which the character appears (not counting demos as separate from the full game)". This is why Dedede Robo is relevant; its planned first appearance was Kirby GCN, but its actual first appearance was Kirby Mass Attack, like how Kirby's planned first appearance was Kirby's Dream Land, but his actual first appearance was Arcana. If Kirby GCN were to be released now (it won't but this is a hypothetical), it wouldn't retroactively make Mass Attack not the first appearance, because it still released first regardless of whether it was originally planned to be. In the same way, even though Kirby was made for Kirby's Dream Land, Arcana is what ended up coming out first, so that's his "first actual appearance". And I never claimed this wiki is about Arcana etc. - indeed, this is a wiki about the Kirby series, including its characters and their appearances in other games (that's the last time I link to that page in this conversation I promise).

You're right that Kirby's Dream Land is usually called Kirby's first appearance in official material (which is the main reason I want to keep it in the infobox along with Arcana as a compromise), but that doesn't mean his appearance in Arcana retroactively doesn't exist. Similarly, Gooey's first appearance was Kirby's Dream Land 2 in a minor role, but Kirby Star Allies describes him as "This googly-eyed wonder from Kirby's Dream Land 3" (consistent with a few other descriptions of him in the game), instead referring to his first major appearance. I get why Kirby's Dream Land is officially considered Kirby's first appearance and I do think it's notable enough for the infobox, but since the actual first game in which he appeared was Arcana, I think it should also be included for the sake of accuracy. Clearly you disagree though, and since opinions in this conversation appear to be split down the middle so far I'm unsure how to proceed. Hewer (talk · contributions) 20:17, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Once again, we are a Kirby wiki, so my definition of "first actual appearance" in the context of WiKirby is "the first released Kirby game in which the character appears (not counting demos as separate from the full game)". There is a reason why Chao & Goku list only Kirby and Smash games in their infoboxes despite appearing before in non-Kirby games. Another good example is Samus, which falls in the same category. Since the scope of this wiki is Kirby games, we focus on that.

The Gooey example you listed do not say anything specifically about his "first" appearance or anything, which is unlike the examples I presented to you. I don't think it's a fair comparison. In either case, in his case it's all Kirby games, so for that reason alone there is really nothing to discuss.

Well, like it was mentioned, the wiki does not list non-Kirby and Smash games in infoboxes, so regardless of opinions, it looks like the middle ground would be to do that, honestly. - Gigi (talk • edits) 20:32, 4 September 2023 (UTC)