Talk:Helper

Crash

don't Crash, Mike, Paint, and Sleep have helpers? Turtwig A (talk | contribs) 22:46, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

None of the limited use abilities (Crash, Mike, Paint and Cook) have helpers. Sleep doesn't have a helper either for the obvious reasons that you couldn't summon it while sleeping and your helper could do nothing but sleep xP --Vellidragon 23:12, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

That makes sense. Thanks for answering my question. Turtwig A (talk | contribs) 23:18, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

I was about to categorize this, then I realized I have no idea what to categorize it as, Enemies, Characters, create Category:Helpers...Axiomist (talk) 05:35, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Kirby Wii

Shouldn't something about helpers being set to appear Kirby Wii/Kirby's Epic Yarn (I don't know if they're different) be added? Turtwig A (talk | contribs) 17:36, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

It might be premature, and chances are we'd forget later. So I'd wait until we actually play it. But if you add it, source what we know, and keep notes on your page or something, I won't object. Axiomist (talk) 04:47, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Phew!

Finally got done uploading and placing all the sprites from KSS and KSSU. It took me a couple hours, but it was worth it! Enjoy! Tailzfoxy96 07:07, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Wow, thank you :3 I had actually ripped some of the KSS ones myself, but never got around to uploading them, and these are much more complete either way. Nice job :3 --Vellidragon 13:40, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

I should mention that as far as I know, Multiple Upload doesn't work in MediaWiki 1.16. Which we will be upgrading to soon. Possibly Sunday. I recommend taking advantage of it before then as much as possible. Axiomist (talk) 06:37, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Terminology

So before there's any more moving around of pages related to the terms, are these actually officially called "Allies" and "Friends"? Friend should only go here and not be a disambiguation if that exact term is actually used to refer to Helpers specifically, otherwise it's ambiguous and would refer to other things just as much as Helpers.--Vellidragon (talk) 06:50, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

In Star Allies, they are called Friends. Allies is another term to refer to them in SA as well, but it isn't as used. As it stands, I do think Friend ought to only redirect here. --Fubaka (talk) 07:21, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

Ahh, that makes sense - thank you! I haven't been keeping up with recent games. I recommend citing references for alternative names when possible and agree it should redirect here if it's a proper term for Helpers, with the disambiguation at the top since other things are called "friends" and "allies".
By the way, "(disambiguation)" pages are fine if there's a specific article that fits the term best and it links to the disambiguation. "Friend (disambiguation)" would have been okay here, that's why I restored it at first, but I realised it doesn't need a separate page because there's only two other uses of the term.--Vellidragon (talk) 16:55, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

I suppose such pages are standard practice on Wikipedia, though I've yet to see a single disambiguation page on this site which actually had (disambiguation) in the title. I personally saw such things as messy, but if there's a need in future, I won't get in the way. --Fubaka (talk) 17:05, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

"(disambiguation)" is added if the title without parentheses is already in use. This generally happens when there's one specific usage that's more accurate or more likely to be what someone was looking for than other meanings of the term, but there's still enough others to need a disambiguation page (e.g. "Mario" the Nintendo character vs. other people named Mario). The reason it's common on Wikipedia and not here is because our coverage is so narrow.--Vellidragon (talk) 19:40, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

Splitting Pages

As of what I think, I think that the Helpers from KSS, and the Friends from KSA should be seperated into two different pages. (Helpers and Friends). I do know that they are VERY similar, but I think it can confuse some people, as in KSA they are called different names, and it works with 4P, but the Helpers only work with 2P. And since many of the friends in KSA are different from KSS, I think they should be split. As a person who is very knowledgable on Kirby, and has edited on many wikis, In my opinion, They should be split.IsaacBoi321 (talk) 02:11, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

I dunno, I feel like if they were split, it would cause the two pages to be a little too similar in terms of overlap. I don't think the difference in number of players should be reason enough for a split. They have a lot more in common than different. In particular, the fact that you can call them both by sacrificing a Copy Ability, and use the Normal Beam on both to dispel them. The way they both function in terms of CPU behavior is also extremely similar. I guess I just don't see the argument for them being totally separate pages. --Samwell (talk) 02:13, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Ok, I understand this, and I agree. But could we at least change the page name to Friends instead of Helpers, considering KSA sold more than KSS, and also because it is the most recent use and name for them. --IsaacBoi321 (talk) 02:18, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Sometimes it is pertinent to update the main title of a page to account for the newest terminology. However, despite selling more, Kirby Super Star is still a much more foundational part of the series than Kirby Star Allies, so it's still more likely that people coming here will know the term "helper" over "friend". If future games feature friends and call them such, we can revisit this idea. --Samwell (talk) 02:20, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Alright, that makes sense. I appreciate you arguing with me in such a nice and polite way, unlike the admins at BULBAPEDIA (yes, I do edit there) Kirby is one of my favourite series of all time, and using my knowledge I will edit this wiki the most I can! I am looking forward to eventually becoming an moderator, or even admin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by IsaacBoi321 (talk • contribs) 21:43, February 13, 2023. Please always sign your comments by typing ~~~~!

So, it's worth noting that, officially, the two are considered the same "mechanic"; see in the Kirby Portal website, so I'm against a split. However, we do use more recent names in the wiki, so I don't agree with the argument that "Helper" should be used because Super Star can be considered a more important game that Star Allies; if anything, both are important on their own ways to the series. If that argument stood, we would need to rename pages like Mekkai to their Super Star name "Mecheye", or apply a similar logic to pages like Jukebox. Point is, since HAL apparently considers both names to be valid and the same thing, we should use the most recent name, "Friend". The only argument in favor I can see is that "Helper" was used in two games of the series, although in a way that's cheating since one is a remake. Anyway, I think it makes more sense per our policy to use the most recent name here, the other will still be a redirect anyway. - Gigi (talk • edits) 02:45, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Perhaps I'm just being an old fogey (or a Sakuraite :P), but ultimately I would not have a problem with this page being named Friend. I will abide by the Editor-in-Chief's wishes. --Samwell (talk) 02:58, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

(edit bumped) The Japanese version of Star Allies calls them "Friend Helpers" as I recall anyway, so that can be taken into account as meaning they're considered the same thing with a new name rather than a separate thing. If we move this page to "Friend", we should probably also move Normal Beam to "Unfriend". StarPunch (talk) 03:02, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

I'm apparently watching this page, so just chiming in that they should probably not be split and moving it to Friend would make the most sense (unless there's any more recent use of another name). They seem like they're intended to be essentially the same concept and the difference isn't that big.
Moving Normal Beam to Unfriend I would disagree with, as it sounds like Unfriend is simply a move while the Normal Beam is an object. The beam itself is not "an Unfriend" so the title wouldn't make sense for it.--Vellidragon (talk) 05:16, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

I agree with moving to Friend due to being the newest name, and I think that moving Normal Beam to Unfriend would also work for the same reason since Normal Beam is described as an ability (and the blue circle summoned by it appears in KSA as well). ---PinkYoshiFan 14:43, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

I know that all of us can't agree on a decision, but most people agree that Helper be moved to Friend, and Normal Beam be mpved to Unfriend. I would love to make this change, if the admins allow me to do it. But we first need to make a decision. I agree with User:Gigi and everyone else who thinks that they should be moved to "Friend" and "Unfriend". Since most people think like this, then I think we should stop arguing, because My idea is clearly more popular. Or, we could have a vote, and see which has the most votes. --IsaacBoi321 (talk) 15:53, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Re: Normal Beam, you're right, the "Normal Beam" is the ability. I thought it was the name of the wand it creates, since it looks like the Beam wand, but that is called "Ability Item". I agree then that it can be moved, it's also not had a consistent name anyway (went from Suppin Beam to Normal Beam to Unfriend).--Vellidragon (talk) 16:33, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

I agree with the initial statement. They're too similar to get their own pages in my opinion. ~☆Starvoid⁠☆ (t · c) 18:14, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

(Had to jump back down here) Typically we do go with the idea that most people agree with, and on that note I agree with having the pages moved to Friend and Unfriend for above reasons, but I wouldn't consider this discussion a heated argument. Let's not make it one with aggravation or by picking favorites, 'kay? We're all friends here, just sharing what we think is best. -- Jellytost♡ (talk) 16:09, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Also we typically wait a couple days, just to make sure no one else will disagree. If we were to just gather, say, 3 opinions in one side in just a couple hours, that doesn't exactly mean that is the most popular one; maybe in 5 days 5 others would come with a different argument and convince those other 3. And since this page isn't critical or anything, it's best for us to just wait to see if anyone else has anything new to add or differing opinions, instead of doing big changes in a hurry. - Gigi (talk • edits) 16:27, 14 February 2023 (UTC)

Personally, I feel as though Normal Beam and Unfriend are two seperate things. The Normal Beam part is what causes the Unfriend. Unfriend is just what happens when the Normal Beam is used. I could be entirely wrong on this and this could be untrue, but this is just what I think is going on. I agree that the Helper page should be moved to Friend, but I do not think the Normal Beam page should be moved to Unfriend. That's just my two-cents. --Basic Person (talk/contribs) 00:22, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

I know that there are votes on WiKirby, and I want to start one, to see more people's opinions. I don't know how though, but if someone could create a vote on moving Helper to Friend and Normal Beam to Unfriend. That would be appreciated :)--IsaacBoi321 (talk) 01:33, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

It looks like the general consensus is to move this page to Friend, but there seems to be disagreement on if Normal Beam should be moved to Unfriend. That being said, I feel like they should both be moved or not moved together. Having one page use the KSS(U) term and one page use the KSA term would definitely be inconsistient. ---PinkYoshiFan 15:24, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Bump ---PinkYoshiFan 12:38, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

I would suggest calling a vote on this one to decide the matter. Two at the same time on Friend or Helper, & Normal Beam or Unfriend. Would also be good to let people know it's happening. --Samwell (talk) 18:14, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

While I agree that a vote would probably be the best option at this point, I don't think having them separate would be good, since then one page could be using the old name and a related page using the new name. Although if people think they would be better as separate votes, would they be on their respective pages or would both be here? ---PinkYoshiFan 02:00, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

I see mostly an agreement to move this page to Friend, but for Normal Beam vs Unfriend I don't think anything has been decided, and it feels a bit off-topic of this page. I am going to use this opportunity to leave some final days to see if anyone is objected to moving this page to Friend, and if not I will move it. As for Normal Beam vs Unfriend, I will move that soon to that page's talk page for a better discussion. - Gigi (talk • edits) 18:33, 31 December 2023 (UTC)